Mosses and the men who love them (our meeting with Dr Tan)

**tony.ch** · 25th Feb 2004, 06:19

Loh K L
Those are the mosses I sent, glad to see they arrived ok. I bought the tropical moss quite a time before the willow moss but must admit that to my untrained eye they looked alike aswell. The only difference I could tell (if there is one) was that the tropical moss was darker green. They both however came from the same supplier under the two different names. I have been led to believe that the willow moss was grown outdoors in the UK whilst the tropical moss is an import - I shall be interested to know if they truly are different.
Cheers
Tony

**imported_brbarkey** · 25th Feb 2004, 09:33

Loh K L

Im glad my moss arrived ok...how did the sealed bag work? I have never seen the moss that tony has sent you and comparing in to my "willow moss" they look totally different. My moss looks more like it belongs to the genus Vesicularia. I would love to see more pictures of tony's mosses they look very interesting

**Daemonfly** · 25th Feb 2004, 17:56

Found a page that might be of minor interest. They were trying to ID an "erect" moss they found.

http://hem.bredband.net/micnor/Mysterymoss.htm

**timebomb** · 25th Feb 2004, 21:18

Originally Posted by Gomer

Did you get my email regarding the moss?

Yes, I did, Gomer. You don't have to worry about the algae problem. Your moss arrived today. Thanks. Here's a pic of your Nano Moss:

Nano Moss

And here's a pic of the moss that NongOil thought was the same as yours.

Dwarf Willow Moss

Originally Posted by Tony

Those are the mosses I sent, glad to see they arrived ok.

Tony, here are the pics of the other 3 mosses you sent:

Java Moss from UK

Willow Moss from UK with elongated fronds

Christmas Moss from UK

Originally Posted by brbarkey

I'm glad my moss arrived ok...how did the sealed bag work? My moss looks more like it belongs to the genus Vesicularia.

Ben, here's a pic of the moss you sent. Does it have a common name?

Ben Barkey's Moss

Ben Morrow also sent a moss and here's how it looks:

Ben Morrow's Moss

My good friend, Susan Aufieri also sent some moss from her tanks. I think they are Java.

Susan's Moss

Lastly, Stephan Misfud who lives in Malta sent 5 different species of mosses but he didn't write down the names so I really have no idea what mosses are these:

Moss (A) from Stephan

Moss (B) from Stephan

Moss (C) from Stephan

Moss (D) from Stephan

Moss (E) from Stephan

The last one does not look like a moss at all but a liverwort. Unfortunately, it didn't survive the journey.

Many thanks to everyone who sent mosses. I will try and get them all identified but top priority goes to finding out which is the real Willow Moss.
The Prof is busy working on the scientific paper about the 5 mosses (namely, Java, Christmas, Taiwan, Erect and Bukit Timah/HDB) so it will take some time before he can examine the other mosses. Someone wrote me and said he has capsules on his Java Moss. The Prof was really excited when he heard about this.

Loh K L

**imported_brbarkey** · 26th Feb 2004, 06:54

Loh K L, the moss i sent was a moss that I purchased identifing it as willow moss.

**timebomb** · 29th Feb 2004, 18:36

Hi, folks,

I just got home from a meeting with the Professor and I like to report on his findings.

First of all, we found the real Willow Moss. Hurray!!

The scientific name for Willow Moss is Fontinalis antipyretica. That we know and was never in doubt. But what many of us probably don't know is that there are many varieties of F. antipyretica, among which are var. cymbifolia, var. gigantea, var. antipyretica and var. gracilis. These are just 4 varieties; there are many more. The moss that Ben Morrow sent is Fontinalis antipyretica var. antipyretica. Here's how it looks:

Tony who lives in the United Kingdom sent 2 mosses which look alike. He calls it Willow and Tropical Moss. They are the same plant, Tony and they are both Willow Mosses except that they are of a different variety from the one Ben Morrow sent. Yours are Fontinalis antipyretica var. gigantea As the name implies, your Willow Moss has bigger leaves than the other varieties of Willow. Here are the pictures of Tony's Willow Mosses:

Ben Barkey sent a moss which he thought was Willow Moss too but the Prof said it's not. He said its a Leptodictyum riparium. I don't know if this moss has a common name but if there isn't any, maybe Ben can coin one :smile: Here's a pic of Ben Barkey's Leptodictyum riparium:

So now we know which is the genuine Willow Moss which would mean that all those so-called Willow Mosses sold in Singapore are impostors :smile:.
Anyway, the Prof said he has seen Willow Moss growing in the rivers of North America and they can grow up to 2 metres in length. There's in fact, a stream in Canada which was, on a suggestion by the Prof, named Fontinalis River.

Willow Mosses prefer strong currents and low temperatures so hobbyists in Singapore may have difficulties growing them. I'm trying to grow some of Tony's and Ben Morrow's Willow Mosses in my tanks but I'm not confident that I can keep them alive. If there's any Singaporean hobbyist here who wants to try growing this moss, please drop me a note. But if you can't even grow the Christmas or Erect Moss, please don't bug me for any Willow

.

Gomer sent a Moss which he calls Nano Moss. The Prof said its Amblystegium serpens. Here's a pic of Gomer's moss.

Stephan Mifsud who lives in Malta sent a moss which he thought was Java Moss with capsules. Here's how it looks:

The Prof was excited about the capsules but unfortunately, he discovered that it wasn't Java Moss but a species of Vesicularia. Too bad

but I'm expecting another sample of Java Moss with capsules from a hobbyist living in the USA. Let's hope it's really Java this time.

That's all I have to report for now. I didn't bring every sample of moss I received to the Prof because there won't be enough time to examine all of them. But rest assured I will try my best to get all your mosses identified later when the Prof has more time.

And oh, one more thing. The Prof has decided that the common name for the moss formerly known as Bukit Timah/HDB should be "Singapore Moss". I would say the name is fitting as it's a moss that can be found everywhere in Singapore growing under the shades of trees and on the sides of streams. Also, Singaporean hobbyists were the first people to find this moss and popularise it. It's a species of Vesicularia and is semi-aquatic which means you can grow them emersed or submersed. I know some of you will be disappointed that your suggestions for the common name weren't accepted but let's all take this in good faith. Choy Heng Wah and Ben Yau were the first 2 persons to report about this moss which they found in the Bukit Timah area. Although their suggestions for the common name were rejected, they deserve a lot of credit for bringing this moss to the attention of hobbyists everywhere. Let's give these 2 a big round of applause.:smile:

Here's a pic of the Singapore Moss:

Loh K L

**hwchoy** · 29th Feb 2004, 18:43

Loh, pass some willow to bioplast, since he has cold water and those flow height tanks with good current. he is also just across from your house so you can check on them everyday :P

**Green Baron** · 29th Feb 2004, 19:32

Originally Posted by timebomb

The Prof was excited about the capsules but unfortunately, he discovered that it wasn't Java Moss but a species of Vesicularia. Too bad

but I'm expecting another sample of Java Moss with capsules from a hobbyist living in the USA. Let's hope it's really Java this time.
Loh K L

Actually, Prof Tan said that the moss sent by Stephan Mifsud contains a mixture of Vesicularia sp and Java Moss. However all the capsules were detached from the moss

and could have come from the Vesicularia sp instead. Thus the specimen cannot be used since he can't be certain that the capsules are really from Java Moss.

If any of you plan to send Java moss with capsules to KL, please make sure the capsules are still attached to the moss.

And oh, one more thing. The Prof has decided that the common name for the moss formerly known as Bukit Timah/HDB should be "Singapore Moss". I would say the name is fitting as it's a moss that can be found everywhere in Singapore growing under the shades of trees and on the sides of streams. Also, Singaporean hobbyists were the first people to find this moss and popularise it. It's a species of Vesicularia and is semi-aquatic which means you can grow them emersed or submersed.

Here's a pic of the Singapore Moss:

Note that almost all the mosses sold in emersed form (with soil at the bottom) in Singapore LFS are this 'Singapore Moss' and not the real Christmas Moss.

The good news is Singapore Moss when grow properly can look like Christmas Moss and it is almost impossible to tell them apart without comparing them under microscope.

Here's a photo of Singapore Moss in submersed form :

The moss at the top of the drift wood is Erect Moss.

Gan

**hwchoy** · 29th Feb 2004, 22:29

Originally Posted by Gan CW

The good news is Singapore Moss when grow properly can look like Christmas Moss and it is almost impossible to tell them apart without comparing them under microscope.
Gan

I can vouch for that. I have grown both the Singapore moss and the Christmas moss (from Gen-X) on mesh in the same tank side by side. If it weren't for the fact that they're next to each other, it would have been impossible to identify.

**Debbbear** · 1st Mar 2004, 06:37

Loh K L,
I have been enjoying this thread.

I have looked and looked at my Java moss which is all over my tank. I can not see any capsules. Maybe I don't know what I'm looking for.

I will send you a picture and you have a look. If there is something that catches your eye I will send you some.

**imported_brbarkey** · 1st Mar 2004, 12:03

Loh K L

Thanks for getting my moss I.D. for me...how cool are you!!!

. As for a common name I havent a clue...I will let some grow out well and then maybe post a pic of it for some help on that one

**Daemonfly** · 1st Mar 2004, 13:13

The moss I received from someone in New York, USA looks to be identical to Gomer's Nano Moss - i.e. a mini "erect moss". Once this grows out, I can send some.

I have another moss I gathered from my bonsai tree that I'm acclimating to submerged growth. It was just a few fronds, so needs time to grow.

I'm also growing "Java moss" emersed to see if I can get some spore capsules. If so, I'll send them along.

My "Christmas Moss" from www.floridadriftwood.com is slowly recovering, but is now half covered in blue-green algae that my 20g is infested with

Once the mosses are ready, I'll just ship them all over, but that might still be a few weeks off.

**Slaigar** · 1st Mar 2004, 14:00

I will have to start looking for mosses when it warms up here in Canada! Too bad summer will not be coming for quite awhile. Next time I go to Waterton(a few hours away), I will do some active searching. The lakes beside me are man made and gross me out.

Atleast I can look forward to a small batch of erect moss that I ordered. I am crossing my fingers that it comes in a few days!

**timebomb** · 1st Mar 2004, 16:22

Originally Posted by Debbbear

I have been enjoying this thread.

I have looked and looked at my Java moss which is all over my tank. I can not see any capsules.

I didn't know mosses interest you too, Debra but I'm glad you're enjoying this thread :smile:. If you can find a capsule in your Java Moss, you could very well become famous overnight :smile:. It looks like a comma, a stem with a bud at one end.

Originally Posted by Daemonfly

Once the mosses are ready, I'll just ship them all over, but that might still be a few weeks off.

I'll be waiting for your mosses, Mike. In the meantime, if you like to have some Christmas and Erect, write me privately with your mailing address. I have plenty of both :smile:.

Originally Posted by Slaigar

I will have to start looking for mosses when it warms up here in Canada!

Mark, is there really a Fontanilis River in Canada? I wonder if the Prof was pulling my leg when he told me that story

If you're looking for Erect Moss, look no furthur. I will send you some. All I ask is that you send some moss in return. The Prof said temperate countries have many aquatic mosses. Is Canada a temperate country? My geography sucks

Loh K L

**BeyondGomer** · 2nd Mar 2004, 00:23

Originally Posted by Daemonfly

The moss I received from someone in New York, USA looks to be identical to Gomer's Nano Moss - i.e. a mini "erect moss". Once this grows out, I can send some.

I sent some of my moss to a few people. One if I remember correctly was in New York. A possibility?

Thanks Timebomb! Interesting findings! Hope this all helps with the professor's studies

**Daemonfly** · 2nd Mar 2004, 06:41

No, this was Urkevitz's moss from Plantedtank.net, if you remember. He collected it locally & has been growing it in his tank. He thinks it's Leptodictyum riparium, or Streamside Leptodictyum moss

Emersed & Submersed pics, both are about a week's growth:

Moss from Bonsai:

This is quite similar to the Urkevitz moss so far, but it's such a small portion, and it's only been growing submersed for a few days, so hard to tell yet. It's keeping my 2 baby Marimo balls company

**Slaigar** · 2nd Mar 2004, 07:26

I am not too sure what the term "temperate" means but Canada does have a wide range of biomes. Other than being consumed with snow for a good deal of the time, Canada does have regions considered to be temperate rainforest. Sadly, I am not in that region. The province that I am in is mostly prairies (grassland).

I cannot say I ever heard of "Fontinalis River"! The name has never been mentioned in social class yet either, hehe. I was quite shocked when I read the name, thinking that there might be a fresh source of moss near me! If there are rivers with prolific amounts of moss nearby, I will be sure to collect.

**timebomb** · 2nd Mar 2004, 19:56

Mike,

Urkevitz's moss looks very nice emersed. If they are really Leptodictyum riparium, I regret giving all of what Ben Barkey sent to the Prof. If I had known they can be grown emersed, I would have kept some for myself

It's actually quite easy to grow mosses emersed. I took a look at my terrarium today and noticed that the Erect is growing really well. It's been almost a month since I put the Erect on the driftwood and here's how it looks now:

Loh K L