Maturity and breeding the Pseudepiplatys annulatus

[RonWill]

Folks,
I received a PM regarding the maintenance, sexing and breeding of Pseudepiplatys annulatus, or affectionately known as the 'Clown Killie'.

Instead of keeping it to myself, I've decided to repost the PM and my subsequent response, in the hope that others can also chip in their experience, however brief.

I understand from Mich Soon he has been to your place and got some starter killies from you. Since you have so much knowledge on killies (as opposed to me), I was wondering if you can answer my problems. I've just bought some clown killies (6) approximately an inch in length and are showing great colours. They are inside a 5 gallon tank with floating plants. Problem is, I'm not sure how old they are.

How will I know if they're sexually mature? I've heard of cannibalism amongst siblings as well as parents too. Wouldn't want that to happen. When transferred out of the tank, their colours fade and I'm sure they're stressed. I heard of spawning mops but I'm sure they wouldn't like that environment much compared with those natural plants.

Can you offer some advice? Thank you.

Yes, Michael did buy some killies when he last visited SG and I'm glad he's doing well with the Ps. annulatus or "Clown Killies". Did you get yours from him or is there another LFS that sells killies in Malaysia?

At one inch, your fishes are mature and will do well in a 'permanent setup', ie. moderately packed tank with plants, well aged and with plenty of floating plants. Transfer fry as and when you see them.

True that cannibalism will occur, especially when the fry develop their 'stripes', so it becomes habitual for me to sort them out by size and raise separately.

With ANNs, spawning mops are more trouble than they are worth and the resulting number of surviving fry isn't significantly better. Skip the mop and go 'permanent'. It's less hassle that way and more fun to observe their behaviour.

Take care and welcome to the colorful world of killifishes.

Bought my killies from Michael since I believe no lfs carry them.
Either they're just too expensive to be brought in or they just don't
have knowledge of this fish. I'm really happy to have come across
these beauties and have to thank Michael and you (indirectly)!

He's planning to make a trip down to SG to visit you again but have
some things to sort out first. You must have a variety of killies for
him to make a trip there! I'm partial to the non annuals althought
planning to share some nothos eggs with Michael to help cut cost
(that's one of the perks in fish hobby)!

I do check for fries but I'm not sure if spawning had occured. I see a
lot of chasing around in the tank. Let's hope we'll see some babies
very soon. My last batch of 6 adults (also from Mich) ended in a
tragedy probably from polluted water via frozen daphnia feeds. That
incident also wiped out my pair of FP gardneri and an australe (all
separate tanks), so I'm pretty sure it was due to the foul water. I'm
more careful now feeding only little frozen bloodworms and little bit
of bbs on alternate days. So far, so good.

I'm very interested in the aphyosemion australe chocolate. Wonder if
you have any eggs for sale? I'm in Kuala Lumpur and no, I don't mind
having to post in the forum. I think it's only good for the hobby and
for beginners like myself.

Thanks so much for your reply and I look forward to your next mail.

If the original poster is reading this and feels comfortable to enquire or add further to this thread, the welcome is always open.

[whuntley]

I agree with the suggestion to forget the mops. ANN eggs seem to not survive handling, so the eggs should not be picked, any way.

I like a lot of floating water sprite or other plants with thickets of roots hanging down, but also think that a good bunch of fibrous peat o/e hanging in the water and down on to the bottom will attract and hold lots more eggs than the plant roots. We can't get the good German fibrous peat here at any reasonable price, so sometimes substitute redwood shredded fibers that are called "Monkey Fur" in the landscape trade. You may be able to get the equivalent humins and bacteria killers with dried leaf litter, particularly your tropical almonds. If your LFS has the fibrous peat sold for Fluval and Hagan filters, you can buy about 10-15 packets to get enough for one ANN tank. [Not practical, IMHO.]

The babies are incredibly tiny, and often can be found hiding in the meniscus next to the glass. You may also spot them after lights out, by shining a flashlight from above. Each ANN has a tiny forehead retro-reflector that really shows up when you look down the flashlight beam. Look for tiny pinpoints of light similar to the larger ones on the parents.

[I mean here the typical American definition of flashlight as an electric torch, not the photographer's burst-of-light kind of thing.]

Get them out as soon as you can see any hint of vertical stripes, as that is about when they become predatory on siblings. When they get to 3/8-1/2" and look like fish, that tendency goes way down, I think. Use your flat-bottom spoon to scoop them up, as they typically hang out very near the surface for a while.

HTH

Wright

[Svein]

My main problem breeding ANN "Kolente" was not getting eggs and fry, but the male killed the female. I used a 20 l crowded with plants, but it didn't help at all even if I had 1 male to 3 females.
The pity was that I didn't understand the problem before it was too late.

Regards
Svein

[RonWill]

Wright, will coco-fibres from coir be as effective as peat fibre and how does this "Monkey Fur" look like?

[I mean here the typical American definition of flashlight as an electric torch, not the photographer's burst-of-light kind of thing.]

In SG context, some call it 'torch light' and it isn't those used for welding!

[RonWill]

Svein,
Sorry about the "Kolente" but we live and learn. What's important is that we avoid making the same mistakes.

When the time comes, do let us know what goodies you have in store for us and I'll liaise with the rest of the guys (and gals, of course).

Good luck and happy killie-keeping.

[learner]

Sorry to gate crash this thread.

I just got some 15 young adults/old juveniles Pseudepiplatys annulatus and have them in a cycled (but not densely planted and no floaters) tank in my office.

Temperature would be around 22 deg C or so at the coldest. Wondering if this is alright?


Svein,
love your country when I backpacked quite a few years ago. I may be making going to Paris this March. Just a tentative arrangement, nothing concrete yet. If anybody cant wait, and willing to take the risk of shipping it from Norway to France in March, I'm willing to help.

[RonWill]

I just got some 15 young adults/old juveniles Pseudepiplatys annulatus and have them in a cycled (but not densely planted and no floaters) tank in my office.

Temperature would be around 22 deg C or so at the coldest. Wondering if this is alright?

Yi Hong,
The temp looks ok but I'll bet the ANNs will feel alot more comfy if you have floaters, plus the bonus that you might find hiding fry

BTW, if the timing is right, there's a high chance I might get you to meet up with a French killie-breeder, to hand carry back a bunch of eggs [Jian Yang, see if you can arrange that, ya?]

[stormhawk]

Arranging a meeting? That might be possible. This friend of mine is located in a town close to the city of Cognac, France. If you're going anywhere around that region that might be possible.

[learner]

I'll let you know once I have the dates.

I have a problem now with the clown killies. It seems like the water temperature is too cold. And guess what I found?

White spots.

I just gone through a very detailed discussion here.
http://www.killies.com/forum/viewtop...&postorder=asc

Wondering if just some salt would do the job? Is medication really necessary?

[RonWill]

Yi Hong,
I don't think that your office's 22ºC is causing stress to ANNs as mine did fine, even when the temp in the main rack dipped to 23.2ºC, unless you just 'dumped' them into cool water without floating them in the bag till temp equalizes.

Sudden differences can be stressful and allows ich to take hold. A little salt, upping the temp and reduced lighting should help.

You didn't mention if the ANNs are new purchases or already acclimatized from your home tanks. Newly arrived young ANNs at the LFS need alot more attention to acclimatizing and feeding (I once bought a bag of 50 ANNs that didn't survive past 2 weeks). Tank raised ANNs are usually quite stable.

Update us as their condition changes.