Apisto chat/LFS watchlist & etc

[EdwinTay]

hi markvtec2

Ah yes, I remembered the female - It looks ripe, about to drop. I forgot to charge you recommendation fee.

I was not interested in the pandura, although they are extremely healthy. I was targeting the nijsseni - which looks like the pandura (In fact, I do not even know how to differentiate them). Nijsseni are rarer. Occasionally, you can see panduras in LFS.

Good set-up you have. I suggest that you get some java fern tied to wood for the fish to hide. Polyart (at Clementi) has really good thick ones for $2. When the female is guarding the eggs, she can get quite aggressive. Also, sometimes the males will attack the females.

[markvtec2]

hi markvtec2

Ah yes, I remembered the female - It looks ripe, about to drop. I forgot to charge you recommendation fee.

I was not interested in the pandura, although they are extremely healthy. I was targeting the nijsseni - which looks like the pandura (In fact, I do not even know how to differentiate them). Nijsseni are rarer. Occasionally, you can see panduras in LFS.

Good set-up you have. I suggest that you get some java fern tied to wood for the fish to hide. Polyart (at Clementi) has really good thick ones for $2. When the female is guarding the eggs, she can get quite aggressive. Also, sometimes the males will attack the females.

Noted thanks. What are you feeding your apisto? I feeding them NLS and FBS

[EdwinTay]

hi markvtec2

I just fed them live tubifex & daphnia (one feeding so far). But, from my previous experience, frozen bloodworms & daphnias are best as they are;(1) convenient, (2) clean, (3) cheaper. I know when you start a hobby, you try to give the best - giving all the specialised food for cichlids (I did that too). But, I have found out that the conventional foods are as good & much cheaper. For dry food, I intend to get the $5 per pack pellets for louhan & pound them to feed. For dry food, what you must be wary of is the ash content - ash is not good. With rgds to the frequency of feeding, I feed them once every 2-3 days. Hobbists recommend regular feeding but I disagree as; (1) in the wild, they do not get regular feedings, (2) I condition the fish to accept irregular feeding just in case I do not have time to feed them. Of course, when you want to condition them for breeding, the quality & regularity of feeding must improve.

For the fries, as eggbearers have smaller fries, it is quite difficult to feed them. Daphnias may be too big & I am too lazy to hatch brime shrimps. I believe the fries accept dry food.

[alfredliow316]

hi markvtec2

For the fries, as eggbearers have smaller fries, it is quite difficult to feed them. Daphnias may be too big & I am too lazy to hatch brime shrimps. I believe the fries accept dry food.

can try microworms/walter worms/ vinegar eel/infusoria...

[doppelbanddwarf]

For fry, I raise all my fry on decap brineshrimp. Commonly available here is ANS (the brand) decap bs. Of course live food would like what Alfred mentioned would be great. If I have the time I try to hatch some bbs to feed by around 90% of the time at least I feed them decap bs which the adults take as well.


Paduro males have enlarged membranes on the anterior half of the dorsal fins (something like the spiky dorsals of cacatuoides) while nijsenni males do not (the dorsal might be spiked but overall the dorsal is like a continuous cureve). Also, nijsseni males have a caudal spot which is roundish while it is a triangular one in male panduros.
Nijsseni male:

Picture from the krib.com

Panduro male:

Picture from dwarfcichlid.com


Nijsseni females have a large band like lateral spot, while panduro females have a more variable lateral band and a narrow cheek stripe.
Nijsseni female:

Picture from the krib.com

Panduro female:

Picture from the krib.com

[markvtec2]

Bro Edwin will you still be doing the MO since you aready getting a few pair

[alfredliow316]

Great info, bro chongyu

[EdwinTay]

hi all

Tks bro Chongyu for the great info on the diff between pandura & nijsseni. One question - can they interbreed?

Bro markvtec2 - I have given the list to JZX, let's see what they can do first. The pricing for this batch seems pretty ok.

Some of the LFS do occasionally bring in I believe from Malaysia. I have seen borelli, vijieta, caca orange, caca triple red, panduro.

The problem with mass order, I am told, is that we really have to get huge quantities of similar fish (something in the region of a few thousand dollars worth) before anyone is willing to ship. I understand that Apistoworld HK does cater for smaller quantities but I have yet to try. Also, I have not tried Aquabid.

[stormhawk]

To feed these apisto fry, live "boon" from the LFS will do. Just sieve it, they will come in all sorts of sizes, perfect for cichlid fry. You must sieve them from their water and rinse the "boon" with your tank water. They are a great food for apisto fry, no hassle of hatching BBS eggs etc. Give the fry a mix of foods both live and dry. I've read of people who raised their fry on Hikari First Bites. Another thing to consider is frozen Cyclop-eeze. If you get the freeze-dried version, rehydrate a small amount of the Cyclop-eeze in a cup of water. Swish it around to get the stuff mixed in, then squirt into the tank with a turkey baster or syringe. The fry should attack it.

The seller that I got a pair of "wilhelmi" from in the past, fed his fry with ADA AP-1. He said he had good results with it.

@EdwinTay,

I believe there are hybrids between nijsseni and panduro. They are after all, from the same nijsseni-group.

[doppelbanddwarf]

I have no idea whether they can interbreed. More often than not, hybrids among apistos are unable to reproduce further. An example is hybrid between Apisto. sp tefe and Apisto agassizii.
You acn look at the thread here:
http://www.cichlidae.com/forum/viewt...hp?f=12&t=5525

Furthermore, in my humble opinion I think they are already great fishes and I see no reason to produce hybrids if I were to have both species.

[joopsg]

hi markvtec2

Ah yes, I remembered the female - It looks ripe, about to drop. I forgot to charge you recommendation fee.

I was not interested in the pandura, although they are extremely healthy. I was targeting the nijsseni - which looks like the pandura (In fact, I do not even know how to differentiate them). Nijsseni are rarer. Occasionally, you can see panduras in LFS.

Good set-up you have. I suggest that you get some java fern tied to wood for the fish to hide. Polyart (at Clementi) has really good thick ones for $2. When the female is guarding the eggs, she can get quite aggressive. Also, sometimes the males will attack the females.

Hi guys, just want check whether this still exist. For Panduro, the end of the caudal fin should be orange. for Njisenni, it will be yellow. That is what i was told when I start. just want to share some information.

[EdwinTay]

hi bro Stormhawk - looks like you are one experienced fish keeper. I have kept all kinds of tropical fishes for many years. I notice that when one is beginning, one tends to try to get the best -e.g. specialised food. However, over the years, I have found out that sometimes, the best alternatives are cheaper. For instance, for dry food, I have tried the luohan type pellets pounded into bits - it works fine - just be wary of the ash content. I have also found frozen bloodworms & daphnias to be cheaper, more convenient & cleaner than live tubifex, daphnia & brime shrimps. Even for planted tank, I have found that those common plants do not need co2. The key element to their success is plenty of light. Even for aeration, I bought a timer & set it for alternative hour on - saves electricity & does not affect the fish.

bro doppelbandwarf - I thought tefe is a variant of aga? For different but related species of apistos, I am not sure as I have not tried to breed them. However, based on other animals, interspecies breeding are mostly either not possible or their offsprings are mules. Related to this, there is a species of apistos called steel blue. If you look at all apisto literature, they say it originates from Singapore. Some comments mention that steel blue is a hybrid of borelli & another species.

bro joopsg - from my experience, it's hard to tell via slight difference in colour of fin. Your question "check whether this still exists" I presume refers to whether the panduros & nijssenis are still available. Yes they still are. The males are large & the females look like they are ready to drop.

[doppelbanddwarf]

In the thread, Apistogramma agassizii "tefe" is an agassizii from the locality tefe while Apistogramma sp. "tefe" refers to a separate species which is undescribed but closely related to the agassizii and can be found together in the locality too. It is found that hybrids between these 2 species lead to deformities such as irregular scales and often infertility in the next generation as well as a weaker fish more susceptible to diseases. All this information I read from threads such as the one above. Not my personal experience. Yup the 'steel blue' is often mentioned to be from the far east and Singapore and till date no one has concrete information where this fish originated from. In this case the fish is able to reproduce well.

[stormhawk]

@Edwin,

Just sharing my own experiences with raising fry. I did try decapsulated brine shrimp eggs before, but the fry seem to react more to live food so I just use "boon" and tubifex. If I had the Artemio hatchery set from JBL, I would gladly hatch my own BBS, but since they don't have this item in Singapore, I figure, why bother when "boon" is readily available on most days. 50 cent bag lasts me for 2-3 days for a small batch of fry, as long as I constantly remove the dead ones, which usually settle at the bottom of the container. Hopefully during the coming Aquarama, the JBL booth might have it.

On Steel Blue, I had this long time ago. The specimens back then were in superb shape and bred like rabbits. Now, they are usually sold with sunken bellies etc, so they're doomed to die most of the time. Getting a female in a batch of Steel Blue can be hard too. This was the very first apisto I ever bred. The suspected crossing involved one of the regani-group species, and probably within the same group, not including A. borelli. Their body form has no hint of borelli. They are aggressive but the male in breeding condition is splendid. See this thread by Benny:

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...rid-Steel-Blue

The female looks similar because their head also has the blue marking. I would keep it again if I could find a good pair, but unfortunately, whenever I see it at C328 or another LFS, they are in bad shape.

[SCOPE]

Better not feed tubifex, surely the bacteria will affect the apisto later resulting in possible boating

[doppelbanddwarf]

I agree with Joe regarding tubifex. I find that even the hardiest species of apistos are extremely susceptible to internal bacteria from feeding tubifex.

[benjamin216]

The strawberry only left 1 female the last I heard.

[stormhawk]

Bloat occurs even with dry food. Even Malawi cichlids develop bloat due to their diet. Key thing with tubifex is the freshness. Most of the time they are not kept clean at the stores and some people don't rinse them well enough back at home with aquarium water prior to feeding. When fed in moderation, it is a great food to build up the mass of the fry and adults. Any kind of food, be it dry, frozen or live, comes with risks from introduced pathogens. It is how we store the food and how we prepare certain foods that matters. As with all fish, a variety of food is always better.

[EdwinTay]

Agreed with bro Stormhawk. But, to play safe, frozen bloodworms & daphnia. For live tubifex, I usually rinse them then soak for 1-2 hours in M. Blue, then feed. So far, this method works. And, although we all like to "protect" our fishes as much as possible, I believe sometimes, you have to let them be in not-so-pristine conditions so that they develop some kind of immunity. I think it's like, you cannot totally insulate yr kid for the various virus & bacteria - otherwise they will not develop immunity.

Generally, I find feeding the adults no problem. But, be careful of feeding dry pellets which are too big - I had a serious case of bloat with my guppies when the stomachs were extended & just could not subside - no disease. As for the fries, because apistos are egg-layers,they tend to be small. Sometimes, daphnia is too big. And, I find it a hassle to hatch bbs. When I was keeping bettas, I used to culture microworms but the whole house stinks...so I am banned from ever keeping microworms.

[stormhawk]

Edwin, there's a way to culture microworms, minus the stink. I used those plastic containers from hardware shop like SKP etc. Made a small hole at the top with a soldering iron then tape over the hole with Micropore tape. You can't smell the culture that way. Problem with microworm is that the culture explodes very fast in our climate. If you keep the container in a cooler spot they don't reproduce so fast. However, microworm is not very nutritious for fry in the long run so the introduction to BBS and Daphnia after about 2-3 days is a must or else their growth might be stunted.

For variety, can feed with bananaworm and walterworms too. They are related to the microworm but different in size, with bananaworms being the smallest of the 3 types. Vinegar eels are another option but the difficulty is in the harvesting unlike micro/banana/walter worms. However, once you get the hang of it, vinegar eels are excellent food for smaller fry since they disperse throughout the water column, unlike the other 3 worms that sink to the bottom and only crawl around there.