My Impression of the Maxspect Razor 420 120watts LED (8000K)

[David]

Tank_in_Motion

Are you injecting CO2 into your tank? If so, how much are you injecting into your tank in terms of the KH to PH chart and or by CO2 indicator?

[Henlek]

Nice Nice, very natural job T_I_M! Thank you for sharing. Your pics bring back memories of my deceased tank, very similar, right down to the TPs. Very nicely done Fissidens on the driftwood too. I'm really not too sure but 60% sounds alot of light to me now, since if you followed this thread, I'm going to play safe David's way, start low and work upwards. Could this have contributed to the hair algae? I saw that you got ferts K & trace covered, can I learn why there are no N & P?

Btw, I wonder if anyone using the Razor realise that somehow it gives the tank a warm green look. When I was using T5s, my tanks looks clearer and a whiter tone.

[David]

@Henlek....It may or may not be the light intensity alone as he is hanging it at a height of 30cm. Based on his percentage of 60% he is getting about 0.7w to 0.8w there abouts (perhaps 55% may be better based on the plants he is having)? As he is using ADA soil, and to my understanding (correct me if I am wrong please) it leeches NH and thereby starts the water cycle without the need for any form of bioload.

One of the contributing factor may be that he is dosing his tank too early and in what proportion is he dosing? My take is that the tank has not fully cycled and his plants has not fully acclimatized to his water parimeter for dosing. Most of his plants are either slow growers and/or root feeders is another contributing factor. There are no fast growing tank starter stemmed plants like the Hydrophilias or Rotalas. While the Tennulus are growing, I noticed that they are pale.

Water circulation may be an issue combined with a greater need for CO2?

To answer your question about the Razor, take a look at the following video that will answer your question.

http://youtu.be/3A49TGvLdDw

In this video, please noticed the size of tank to the size of the Razor used.....

[Tank_In_Motion]

Hi Henlek

As mentioned by David, will be depending on the leeching from the aquasoil to supplement the N & P for the next few months or until it is exhausted.

Hi David

Am dosing CO2 at about 3bps from an inline diffuser and I would like to think that the circulation in my tank is sufficient as it is coming from two sources, a 2217 and a surface skimmer that doubles up as a powerhead, both positioned diagonally across each other such that the current is pushed around one full circle. I haven't introduced much fauna into my tank yet but I do feel sorry for my Sakuras which are constantly battling this whirlpool 24/7.

As for my fert regime, I am dosing 10ml of Seachem's Potassium and Trace everyday, at least for now. You might be right about me dosing too early and that my plants are not fully acclimatized, the verdict's not out yet as my tank is probably not fully cycled (haven't done any tests yet). The plants are definitely not looking their best...yet, as most are grown from their emersed forms. Will decide any changes to my fert regimes once the plants fully take on their submersed forms. I am new to this hobby so pretty much still experimenting with all the feedback from the forumers.

But what I did change was to tune down my lights from 70% to 60% after reading through this thread, when Henlek was advised to tune down to 36% and Urban was using only 50-60%. However this is what I observed from my plants at the end of the day, the plants higher up the tank were bubbling but the plants right at the bottom ie the HCs and the tenellus decided to take the day off. Hardly a bubble in sight...ok they were probably photosynthesising as well but not as hard as I want them to be. So I will probably switch back to 70% tomorrow and see how it pans out.

As for the paleness of the tenellus, I really do attribute that to atrocious photography and the less than desirable bluish-ness of maxspect's LEDs. To illustrate, this was taken with the blue LEDs tuned down to 0% and warm LEDs left at 70%.
Ok... the photography is just as bad but at least they seem to be taking on a more greenish tint.
tenullus.jpg

[David]

Hi TIM

The 160w Razor is meant for a 90cm tank and at 100% intensity is more than enough for a 90x60x60. You are now using it for a 70x45x45.
No doubt it is 30cm from the waterline, users for the Razors under estimate it's intensity that can rival the intensity of the MH.

In my opinion, you are dosing your tank way too much too early with most of your plants slow growers, root feeders and no stemmed plants.

It is quite evidential that you have more than enough light at 70% for your Tennulus to be spreading like weed in such a short time frame. Tennulus is a aggressive root feeder so none or very little of your liquid fertilizer is absorbed.

My take is to cut your dosing and if you like to increase the percentage, I will go 65% and not 70%.

[Henlek]

Hey not fair! My lights is at 25cm above water, TIM is 30cm. How come TIM gets to go at 65% but me at 36%?

[milk_vanilla]

We could increase the light to the max, there's nothing wrong with that. But when you increase it and without touching the other parameters ( co2 and ferts) are become limited. Therefore your plants suffer and algae takes this opportunity to role the competition., they are better opportunist than the aquarist.

Some folks bomb their tank with huge amount of co2 and use EI method to make these sources become not the limitation point and with success they could run together with their fancy light. It's end up with super high tech tank ( they called), in the mean time It narrows down your balance equilibrium, which is not impossible but it takes lot of effort, knowledge, experience to reach that certain point.

So in the end everything back to your decision, decision and decision.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

[Urban Aquaria]

Super high tech tanks with no fauna are the best arrangement, without any fishes or shrimps to worry about, can crank up lights, Co2, nutrients and chemicals to crazy levels... after a period of super lush plant growth, then add in a school of fishes, take nice photos, after that take them out.

Unfortunately for the rest of us who want to enjoy seeing fishes and shrimps swimming around the tank daily, no choice have to just keep the tank parameters in moderation instead.

[David]

Henkel, no two tanks are the same. Not only in height. Water perimeter, plant type, plant mass, base fert and fert regime. All plays a part.

The difference is that you got green water and TIM did not. His A and B channel are of equal percentage while yours was not. However, his Frissden and Tennullus are showing signs of a tad too much light.

I would recommended TIM stay 60% as algae has already has a foot hold in his tank. It is complicated with the amount liquid fert he is putting in on a daily basis.

However, his mind is made up to go back to 70% so I just want to go slow at 65% as I am guessing he is around to monitor the situation.

[Tank_In_Motion]

Henkel you are not sulking are you? lol...

Aquascaping is definitely more of an art than science, every tank is unique, fellow forumers can dispense really useful and relevant advice but at the end of the day no one knows your tank's parameters better than yourself.

Just to reinforce what M_V said and pretty much my take on light intensity as well....be it at 36% or 65%, light intensity only determines how hard you want your plants to work and in turn how fast they will propagate. If one intends to tune up his lights, he would have to power up his dosages of nutrients and CO2 correspondingly because if you expect your plants to work harder but still give them the same miserable portions, they are going to stop working at some point in time when the lights are still on but the nutrients have run out. That's when algae takes over.

Tom Barr can't seem to stress enough that more often than not, it is not the excess nutrients but the lack of CO2 that motivates alage growth. Drawing theories from EI, that's pretty much the reason why I'm dosing what I'm dosing. However David brought up a good point though, most of my plants are either root feeders or slow growers, with the exception of perhaps a few of my fore to mid ground plants, so I'm not sure how much of my dosing of potassium and traces is put to good use but I would rather have them in excess than to risk a shortfall.

At the end of the day, these few pointers would be my mantra for now until my tank really screws up.

1. Excess (though not overly excessive) nutrients.
Intend to keep K & N below 30ppm and P 2-3ppm. Haven't done any tests yet though as my tank is still cycling so am just dosing about 24ppm of K per week and performing my regular water changes to keep the rest of the macros in check.

2. Generous CO2 dosing
I'm probably blasting about 3bps of CO2 (hard to really count anyway) but all I know is my tank looks like soda pop when I'm blasting my CO2 during the day. Used to have a drop checker for the first few days but it constantly shows green so in the end I removed it as it has become more of an algae magnet than anything else. I do dose stuff to keep my KH between 3-4 after every water change to prevent PH swings though.

3. Sufficient water circulation
Sufficient is really subjective but in my case I do see swaying for most of my plants in my tank so that should do. A 2217 and an additional powerhead should suffice for a 2.5 feet tank. Sufficient water flow ensures that nutrients are thoroughly circulated and quite a number of algae issues arise from stagnant water anyway.

4. Regular water changes (50% every 3-4 days for now)
For my case, since I'm dosing my ferts rather regularly, this is to ensure that they do not over accumulate over time and since my tank is still cycling with ADA aquasoil, ammonia levels might reach dangerously high, I haven't done any tests so far though.

Despite my best efforts, I still get algae on some of my plants but I would like to think that is because they are right under the intense glare of my unforgiving 160w LEDs. Oh well, will monitor and see how it goes.

Cheers

[stressed]

Am also a user of the 120w 8000k set for sometime now. My settings for channel A and channel B are equal. My peak lighting intensity is 75% for a 2ft deep tank.

Do not have any issues with light unevenness with use of standard bracket provided.

My water change is about 25% per week and dosage of DIY frets every two to three days and it consists of N, P, K and excel. I only dose trace elements every month as I have observed it generally gives rise to spot algae on my glass, though not bad, it will require me to clean the glass after a fortnight.

I do not drop check my co2 level but tank is like a fizzy tank of sprite during photosynthesis period based on 75% intensity. No chiller except dc fan. Co2 bubble count is about 3bps.

Think my only variable with most users is I have a 75% light intensity only for 3 hour per day. The 2 hour before and after are my light ramp up and ramp down. I am unable to justify scientifically but this model sure works for me.

I get to trim my plants every fortnight or so, no bba etc so I guess the receipt is working, so FYI for those with algae, may want to reduce the photosynthesis period and try.

[datura]

any outcome on your new set up Henlek, hope it works this time for you

[Henlek]

any outcome on your new set up Henlek, hope it works this time for you

Hi datura, thanks for asking! Yes I'm back (as promised to David). Was thinking of letting it mature more before I prompt David.

And this time it worked much better, thanks to all who contributed to this thread.

[hobbit6003]

I'm currently using the maxspect razor 60W 8K on my 18L tank, intensity is at 70% on both channels.

Plant growth is good as I compliment the strong lighting with good dose of liquid fertilization and CO2. However, I noticed that even as the growth is lush, my Rotala rotundifolia remain green instead of reddish shoot, a friend of mine observe the same with his 120W.

Here's my tank in the thread:
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...679#post763679

Anyone has any comments on the light's impact on their red plants?

[milk_vanilla]

Would it be because your rotala is at the back, while your led bulbs slightly middle upfront? Led disperse is not wide as t5 though

[hobbit6003]

I don't think so, the spread of the light is pretty good as it is hanging only 13cm from the water surface.

The Rotala's growth has been good, growing to the surface very quickly and having to be trimmed at least once a week. The internodal distance looks normal and even those at or near the water surface is green but pearling like crazy.

[Urban Aquaria]

Your lighting should be more than sufficient... just for comparison, i use the Up Aqua Z-Series light which is only 20+ watts, way lower wattage than your MaxSpect Razor. The rotala leaves closer to the water surface in my tanks are reddish in color.

It could be due to other factors like nutrients or Co2, or maybe it couls be because the plants are still adapting to the tank conditions.

Just curious, did your rotala plants show any hints of yellow/orange or red leaves when you first got it?

Reason i ask is you might have gotten Rotala sp. Green instead, which will always stay green.

[hobbit6003]

Your lighting should be more than sufficient... just for comparison, i use the Up Aqua Z-Series light which is only 20+ watts, way lower wattage than your MaxSpect Razor. The rotala leaves closer to the water surface in my tanks are reddish in color.

It could be due to other factors like nutrients or Co2, or maybe it couls be because the plants are still adapting to the tank conditions.

Just curious, did your rotala plants show any hints of yellow/orange or red leaves when you first got it?

Reason i ask is you might have gotten Rotala sp. Green instead, which will always stay green.

Yup, light is definitely very adequate. As for CO2 and other nutrients, I'm quite sure they have ample inside the tank. Growth of the plants is extremely healthy and fast, and I think I'm close to getting the right balance of nutrients in the tank, as I observe the growth of plants, the rate of )2 saturation, as well as algae growth, which has been very significantly reduced after I reduced my light intensity and increased my K and PO4.

Come to think of it, you may be right that I've gotten the green species as I think I only see slight tinges of pinkish stems but the shoots a had green leaves when I bought them, hmm.....

I decide to let them all grow and trail the water surface and see what I get, these weeds are growing at a really fast rate for now...

[Urban Aquaria]

Yeah, if the plants are growing well and you still haven't seen any yellowish/orange or reddish tint in the leaves so far, then it most likely the sp. Green version... its still a nice variant though, the color is very distinct.

Btw, if you do get an opportunity to go shopping for Rotala sp. 'Rotundifolia' again at any LFS again, their initial leaves are usually all bright red color in the pot (benefits of being grown under the power of direct sunlight at plant farms!). Sometimes if those pots have been sitting in the LFS tank for a few days, you might also notice new shoots and submersed leaves growing out and those would tend to be orange to light green color, depending on the lighting they use.

[hobbit6003]

Haha, since everything is green, I'm complimenting the tank with a school of Endler's Livebearers which add the much needed dash of red in the water. Great algae control crew too, together with the shrimps, nerite snails and ottocinclus, the green algae on the rocks are being reduced at a significant rate.

Besides these green algae on rocks, I do have very little GSA on the glass near the substrate level, which I think is normal.

After reading this thread, I guess the amount of light and intensity, differs greatly from tank to tank, depending on dimension, types of plants, layout, water circulation, and then tweaking and tritrating the fertilisation regime and CO2.

For this tank, I start with very high intensity of light (100% on both channels), achieve fast growth, and then observe for algae, then adjust downwards my light intensity and also fine tuning the liquid fertilisation regime. Today, I think I'm close to getting the right mix, and have kept the algae at bay.

But then again, itch fingers will come in later, changing flora and fauna, and the whole titration process starts all over again, I guess this is the fun of the hobby right?