Reply With Quote1 tsp (5mL) of KH2PO4 to a 20L tank added 167.5ppm of PO4. You will need to do severalmore water changes to get it back to usual levels.
furry plant grower
Tank Dimensions: 20litres bowfront
Lighting Intensity:36W x2
Type of Lighting: PL
No. of Hours your light is on: 10 hrs
CO2 Injection Rate (bps) :
Type of CO2: Tank
Method of Injection : diffuser
Substrate Used : Lapis
How Thick is your base fert : 1cm
How thick is your gravel : 3cm
Liquid Fertilizers Used : LGA, Flourish Potassium , Potassium Nitrate, Kh2PO4
Frequency of fertilization : bi-weekly
Tank Temperature : 28 deg C to > 30 deg C
Type of Filter : Internal powerhead, 200 LPH, Eheim 2228 turned down to lowest possible output.
Filter media used : Sponge, Eifisubstrat
How long has your tank been set up : Fish: 1 year, Plants: 6mths
Chemical Properties (Fill what you can)
---------------------------------------
Carbonate Hardness (kh): 4 dkH
Total Hardness (gH): Dunno, also have 3-4 pieces of coral chips mixed with gravel
PH : 6.7 constant.
NH4 (ppm):
NO2 (ppm):
NO3 (ppm): 10ppm
PO4 (ppm): beyond 24ppm
Fe (ppm): 0.25 - 0.5 ppm
Bioload (Your Fish and Plants)
------------------------------
around 50 pcs of various tetras
Describe your problem :
My Phosphate level is beyond measuring range of my testkit. Greater than 24ppm
I have not increased the feeding, and I have made massive water changes (70% per evening and morning for the past 2 days) and even immediately after a water change, PO4 levels are still beyond testing scale.
Anybody with ideas what caused it? And why does it not fall despite my many drastic water changes.
Warm regards,
Lawrence Lee
brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.
Philippians 4:8
1 tsp (5mL) of KH2PO4 to a 20L tank added 167.5ppm of PO4. You will need to do several
ThEoDoRe
furry plant grower
[quote:e190b36360="theodore"]1 tsp (5mL) of KH2PO4 to a 20L tank added 167.5ppm of PO4. You will need to do several
OMG! I've done gone and poisoned me tank!Aiyah. missed 1 dismal point. Teruk. Now must change and change and change water like change parade. :P
Is there any ill effect to the tank at such high levels? I noticed that my pH stayed an impossibly consistent 6.7 day or night, even with aeration, and the CO2 off!
This excess phosphate had probably given me a false pH reading and caused CO2 levels to be unhealthily high. Each morning the fishes are gasping for air and I was wondering why. So I cut CO2 from 1 BPS to 1/2 BPS and even had to add an airstone to dispel the gas at dawn.
Also noticed the plants not bubbling as much.Other than that, all look ok to me.
What can I do to quickly remove the excess PO4? Or should I actually try to reduce it so quickly when the inhabitants are not displaying any signs of intolerance to its excess.
Warm regards,
Lawrence Lee
brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.
Philippians 4:8
Resistance is futile, you will be administrated!
Wah paing eh... this one has got to go into the list of "The biggest boo-boo I made on my planted tank." :P
Now that your tank has lots of PO4, chances are the other macros have been used up. Also, your massive water changes are affecting not just the PO4 levels, but also the levels of all other nutrients.
No fert -> no photosynthesis -> no usage of CO2. That's probably why your tank is high on CO2.
So, do daily 50% water changes, but after each water change, dose all your ferts (10ppm NO3, traces, etc) minus PO4, AND anti-chlorine/chloramine (pour in the anti-chlorine/chloramine before you top up water). Bring your CO2 level back up again.
BTW, if you do your maths, you'll know that 4 consecutive 50% water change should drop your PO4 levels right down to about 10ppm (160ppm*50%*50%*50%*50% = ?). That should be safe enough and you can probably omit PO4 for the next 2 weeks. Anyway, do remember to account for the water changes since the disaster.
Vincent - AQ is for everyone, but not for 'u' and 'mi'.
Why use punctuation? See what a difference it makes:A woman, without her man, is nothing.
A woman: without her, man is nothing.
Resistance is futile, you will be administrated!
Oh yah... dun forget to raise KH too.
Vincent - AQ is for everyone, but not for 'u' and 'mi'.
Why use punctuation? See what a difference it makes:A woman, without her man, is nothing.
A woman: without her, man is nothing.
furry plant grower
[quote:07d71be6b6="vinz"]Wah paing eh... this one has got to go into the list of "The biggest boo-boo I made on my planted tank." :P [/quote:07d71be6b6]
Wah lao eh, really Blur king man. You know that sinking, feeling when you realise you have done something unspeakably foolish? Well, that's how I felt when I read Theodore's reply.Left me gasping to catch back my breath for a while
[quote:07d71be6b6="vinz"]Now that your tank has lots of PO4, chances are the other macros have been used up. Also, your massive water changes are affecting not just the PO4 levels, but also the levels of all other nutrients. .[/quote:07d71be6b6]
I was wondering why I've been rinning low on Nitrate when I usually have excess nitrate problems. Now I know.Not only was I dosing NO3 daily, I was also dosing 5 drops of LGA daily, and was still running low on iron at 0.1 ppm of Fe. I was about to wonder aloud, who's been stealing my Iron?
[quote:07d71be6b6="vinz"]No fert -> no photosynthesis -> no usage of CO2. That's probably why your tank is high on CO2..[/quote:07d71be6b6]
Ya, till the extent where I'm running 36 watts X2 PL lights, placed right level with the water, in order to get a bit of bubbling. :P
[quote:07d71be6b6="vinz"]BTW, if you do your maths, you'll know that 4 consecutive 50% water change should drop your PO4 levels right down to about 10ppm (160ppm*50%*50%*50%*50% = ?). That should be safe enough and you can probably omit PO4 for the next 2 weeks. Anyway, do remember to account for the water changes since the disaster.[/quote:07d71be6b6]
160ppm less 50% = 80ppm less 50% =40ppm less 50% = 20ppm less 50% = 10ppmNever passed my mathametics since sec 1
Thanks for all the quick responses and good advice.
Warm regards,
Lawrence Lee
brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.
Philippians 4:8
you have to watch your light as well. 20L with 2x36W is way too high.
Cheers!
furry plant grower
[quote:971652e650="Heuer"]you have to watch your light as well. 20L with 2x36W is way too high.
Cheers![/quote:971652e650]
Took the light down last night. Dismantled and cleaned away the layer of water stains and dust from its perspex cover and from the reflector. Amazing how much light I've lost just through dust. Now, the lamps on their 3 inch high legs can give as much illumination as when they are placed directly on the rim of the tank!The tank is much cooler this way too.
I'd normally turn each tube on alternate days. But due to my recent boo boo, I noticed the plants not bubbling much, so I turned both on thinking the tubes could be old. Now I know better. Thanks to the advice from this forum I can go back to cooler water and lower power bills.
Warm regards,
Lawrence Lee
brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.
Philippians 4:8
like to know wat will happen if the tank had high Phosphate level
furry plant grower
[quote:366c1bb9bd="blurrblurr"]like to know wat will happen if the tank had high Phosphate level[/quote:366c1bb9bd]
Already knew
Warm regards,
Lawrence Lee
brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.
Philippians 4:8
Resistance is futile, you will be administrated!
[quote:b923963b99="blurrblurr"]like to know wat will happen if the tank had high Phosphate level[/quote:b923963b99]
blurrblurr,
Please type in complete sentences WITH punctuation. Your sentence as it is could either be a question asking Lawrence if he wants to know the consequences of high phosphate, or it could a declaration that YOU would like to know the consequences of high phosphate.
Vincent - AQ is for everyone, but not for 'u' and 'mi'.
Why use punctuation? See what a difference it makes:A woman, without her man, is nothing.
A woman: without her, man is nothing.
Oops sorry cos never had the habit to type in complete sentences WITH punctuation.
Wanna know if High PO4 = High CO2.Will the high CO2 kill the fishes in the tank?
Recently trying to get rid of the spot algae so I dose slightly higher than before. now reaching 4ppm but spot algae still there
Higher levels of PO4 by itself will not cure Green spot.
Poor CO2 will also cause it to appear.
Just focus on what makes the plants grow well.
Then the rest takes care of itself.
You can go back later and try and limit something to slow the growth down, but less light is the best way to accomplish that.
Regards,
Tom Barr
furry plant grower
[quote:523143b2="blurrblurr"]Oops sorry cos never had the habit to type in complete sentences WITH punctuation.
Wanna know if High PO4 = High CO2.Will the high CO2 kill the fishes in the tank?
Recently trying to get rid of the spot algae so I dose slightly higher than before. now reaching 4ppm but spot algae still there
Hi BB,
High PO4 does not mean high CO2. However, because the KH2PO4 brings pH down, it kinda like throws your CO2 calculations out of whack.The day I OD my tank with KH2PO4 (0ver 168ppm PO4) my CO2 calculations gave me greater than 60ppm CO2!!!
Initially, my plants were bubbling too well, and the fishes did not display any symptoms of hypoxia at all. Probably the oxygen saturation level was well above the dissolved CO2 and therefore gave a great enough difference for the gases to exchange (my speculation).
I didn't know my mistake, then, so was happily enjoying the "soda factory" at work and expectantly waiting for the green spot algae's demise. After 2 days of this, there was marked improvement in algae reduction. Then the signs of my OD started showing up.
Bubbling rate slowed, and despite increasing lighting intensity, it didn't come back. So I increased CO2 rate. No improvement. Left it as that for a night, and next day at dawn, all the fauna were at the surface gasping.
In the afternoon, I returned and checked on the tank. Plants not bubbling at all. Hmmm, probably lack of oxygen that caused the gasping in the morning, with plants as expected, not bubbling. Checked pH: still at 6.7
Anyway, on hindsight, I surmise that extremely high PO4, buffered my pH, giving a false CO2 reading. That caused me to disregard my test results and go by "gut feel" since tank was doing better than before.
2 days later, the other elements N, K and micros probably got exhausted before time, so I started to see the strange lack of bubbling. Reflex action was to blame the light and CO2 first. But when the fauna showed signs of hypoxia, I knew CO2 was in excess, but it took me some time to realise the true problem was because some element was deficient.
Worse, I had stopped testing as I had doubted my test results (high untestable PO4 and a pH stuck at 6.7). When I finally ran a round of tests, it confirmed the suspicion. NO3 was 0ppm, fe also 0ppm, which means most probably that K is also exhausted. I went on many rounds of water changing to reduve excess PO4 and topping up the missing elements, which now I realised I could have avoided the work, if I had, blackout (getting to be a popular word here in hougang
I apologise for the rambling. I'm sharing my mistakes in the hopes that you can make some sense of it and avoid my wrong steps.
In conclusion, high PO4 doesn't mean high CO2. High PO4 just throws your CO2 chart out of whack by lowering your pH values artificially. BTW, I just did a quick experiment as follows: Mix 10ml of KH2PO4 into a 100ml of water whose pH is 8.4, kH is 1 degree. After the KH2PO4 is dissolved, pH dropped to 5! If the chart was to be relied on totally, then I had just achieved a CO2 level of 300ppm without injecting a single bubble!
High CO2 levels will not necessarily kill fishes if oxygen level is higher. However, there is a limit to this statement and I don't recommend you try to explore where that limit is.
I hope this helps. Good luck in your battle.
Warm regards,
Lawrence Lee
brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.
Philippians 4:8
thanks for sharing understand now
furry plant grower
[quote:193a4f4d04="blurrblurr"]thanks for sharing understand now[/quote:193a4f4d04]
BB,
I learn from somebody else in here, you learn to avoid my errors, in the end, we get closer to achieving the nice tanks that we wanted. That's why we keep returning to this forum isn't it?
And my last part of yesterday's post got cut off. I meant to say:
High CO2 levels will not necessarily kill fishes if oxygen level is higher. However, there is a limit to this statement and I don't recommend you try to explore where that limit is. Rather, you should spend the time in finding out what is the limiting factor/factors for your tank and work towards meeting those factors. This way, your plants will be given the conditions suitable for them to outcompete and starve off the algae.
Good luck.
Warm regards,
Lawrence Lee
brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.
Philippians 4:8
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