Reply With QuoteDo you mean that 2 days after you dose in excess, the plants stop photosyn, and even if you dose again, they will not resume?
Or do you mean that 2 days after you does in excess, the plants will stop photosyn if you do not dose again?
furry plant grower
The commonly seen statement that when plants have all the necessary Light + CO2 + NPK + TE, they can outcompete algae leads me to think that I can dump in a whole lot of everything and then dose less regularly as long as not one item runs out.
Hypothetically, can't I just dump in say 15 watts per gallon of lights, 60ppm of CO2, 60ppm NO3, 24ppm PO4, 60ppm K, 1ppm Fe (and whatever trace that comes with the LGA), then sit back for a week till water changing time before feeding again? There should be plenty of nutrients to prevent anything from running out for the week. Er... maybe the Fe will, which I'm willing to drop in daily, but the rest should have plenty to spare what.
So based on the term "Nutrient Imbalance" does it mean that in order for plants to grow well without algae, a certain "balance" or ratio of nutrients + Light + CO2 is needed? (eg buddy ratio, redfield ratio), and failure to meet these "magical combinations" will fail to unlock the "beautiful plants without algae" objective even though there are copious amounts of all the requirements to spare?
I ask because, even though I have all measurable nutrients in excess, I can only keep my tank bubbling for 2 days. After that, no amount of dosing, lights nor CO2 will cause it to get back to its former state of activity.
Any thoughts?
Warm regards,
Lawrence Lee
brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.
Philippians 4:8
Do you mean that 2 days after you dose in excess, the plants stop photosyn, and even if you dose again, they will not resume?
Or do you mean that 2 days after you does in excess, the plants will stop photosyn if you do not dose again?
[quote:55b177eeb7="GaspingGurami"]Hypothetically, can't I just dump in say 15 watts per gallon of lights, 60ppm of CO2, 60ppm NO3, 24ppm PO4, 60ppm K, 1ppm Fe (and whatever trace that comes with the LGA), then sit back for a week till water changing time before feeding again? There should be plenty of nutrients to prevent anything from running out for the week. Er... maybe the Fe will, which I'm willing to drop in daily, but the rest should have plenty to spare what.[/quote:55b177eeb7]
That's a huge amount of dosing. You are serious?
More doesn't mean better. Having nutrients in excess definitely cause more harm than good. It may block other nutrients from being taken up. Eg. see this discussion
Every tank is different and each of us have to find its balance.
koah fong
Juggler's tanks
Goh,
Pearling is what one see when the water is saturated with oxygen. Failure to observe pearling does not mean that the plants has stopped photosynthesizing.
Lawrence,
It is probably due to high bioload. Tap water usually contains less nutrients than our tank water which is why we do water changes to 'reset' the nutrient levels. It does contain a far amount of oxygen, making it easier to saturate the water with oxygen (so that you see pearling).
ThEoDoRe
Theodore,
You are right. I have used the wrong term. Sorry for the confusion.
Lawrence,
May I know what test kits are you using for PO4, NO3 and Fe?
furry plant grower
[quote:ac846cd80a="theodore"]Goh,
Pearling is what one see when the water is saturated with oxygen. Failure to observe pearling does not mean that the plants has stopped photosynthesizing.
Lawrence,
It is probably due to high bioload. Tap water usually contains less nutrients than our tank water which is why we do water changes to 'reset' the nutrient levels. It does contain a far amount of oxygen, making it easier to saturate the water with oxygen (so that you see pearling).[/quote:ac846cd80a]
Hi Theodore,
Firstly, blame it on my "inquisitiveness" or "an itchy backside", I'm not sure which. I just had to find out for myself what the limit is to growth, and whether it is at all possible to achieve those growth rates stated in the Dennerle plant catalog. But Juggler made an important point too. More does not necessarily mean better.
Also, I read somewhere that in higher temperature tanks, plants need higher levels of nutrients. Mine can hit 30-31 degrees sometimes.
Thirdly, it is not so "fun" to feed the plants as opposed to feeding the fish due to the lack of interaction. So I'd do it in as few times as I know how to. But not wanting any shortage of an element, I'd dose in excess. (got this feeling I'm about to be flamed, but in a small tank like mine, one must be extra diligent in measuring otherwise, it is too easy to dose in excess)
Fourthly, the high bioload has something to do with my intentions. (No, don't worry, I'm not trying to poison the excess fishes that I cannot give away without owner's permission). I just wanted the plants to produce sufficient O2 for the fauna to last through the night till the next photo period.
Goh, I meant that 2 days of good pearling is about all I can get from my plants. After that, no amount of dosing can get them to pearl. In fact, even after 50% water change and topping up of ferts still they won't pearl. Then when you don't expect it, they suddenly turn on the bubbles again.
I've studied my notes and re-studied my notes and searched the web to get an answer on what is the trigger (or the blocker) to cause this behaviour, but to no conclusion. I guess my last experiment would be to remove all the fishes save for 6, change the water and observe again.
Warm regards,
Lawrence Lee
brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.
Philippians 4:8
furry plant grower
[quote:eb16295587="geoffrey"]Lawrence,
May I know what test kits are you using for PO4, NO3 and Fe?[/quote:eb16295587]
PO4 = Red Sea
NO3, Fe = Sera
Warm regards,
Lawrence Lee
brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.
Philippians 4:8
High temperature can be a problem. Initially, my plants normally don't pearl when temperature is above 29C. After installing a cooling fan, the temperature falls to 26C-28C and the plants have been bubbling ever since.Also, I read somewhere that in higher temperature tanks, plants need higher levels of nutrients. Mine can hit 30-31 degrees sometimes.
Of course temperature may not be the only reason or may not be the reason at all. But if you have sufficient light/CO2/fertilisers, that could be the reason. Whether this is the reason or not, try getting a cooling fan to maintain a lower tank temperature, it is definitely better for the plants.
Generally you are not dosing enough of something if you are having a slow down with plant growth.
I have not trusted a test kit I have not also calibrated against a known standard. It can be very problematic if you intend to solve anything.
The water in Sg is fairly well known and consistent.
It is low in PO4/NO3.
Trying out the estimative index removes the issues of over dosing, it also removes the issues of underdosing and is more effective than your test kits most certainly.
http://www.aquatic-plants.org/est_index1.html
This method removes the guess work and testing from most of the equation, just good CO2, therefore pH/KH must be tested and mainly pH.
You might need to add more CO2, KNO3, PO4 etc.
Having too much can and will destablize any system.
The plants do not outcompete the algae, because algae are not in the same niche ecologically as algae to begin with.
Plants need far more nutrients than algae. There is no "competition" really occuring, the plants growth slows down or stops, they become substrate for the algae.
If the tank is slowed down by light and/or non CO2, the algae also grow slower and this gives the same net effect.
Regards,
Tom Barr
furry plant grower
[quote:edae028ac2="goh"]High temperature can be a problem. Initially, my plants normally don't pearl when temperature is above 29C. After installing a cooling fan, the temperature falls to 26C-28C and the plants have been bubbling ever since.Also, I read somewhere that in higher temperature tanks, plants need higher levels of nutrients. Mine can hit 30-31 degrees sometimes.
Of course temperature may not be the only reason or may not be the reason at all. But if you have sufficient light/CO2/fertilisers, that could be the reason. Whether this is the reason or not, try getting a cooling fan to maintain a lower tank temperature, it is definitely better for the plants.[/quote:edae028ac2]
Hi Goh, I noticed the same for my tanks. Lower the temperature (28 degrees) and plants more able to pearl.
I have a 10inch table fan blowing at the lamp and part of the water. However, the room housing the tank is inherently warm. Ambient temperature could be 29 degrees, so it is expected that the tank can get 2-3 degrees warmer from those lights and filter.
Warm regards,
Lawrence Lee
brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.
Philippians 4:8
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