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Thread: Sales of shrimp

  1. #1
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    Sales of shrimp

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    Hi Moderators,

    It has been close to half a year the the ban of sale of shrimps is implement.
    I am just curious that is any one looking into the stricter rules and regulations cause it seems like there isn't any good news.

    Awaiting for your favorable reply.

    Thanks.

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    Re: Sales of shrimp

    Yup, I would agree that it might be best for the community to receive some updates on how and when these new regulations will kick in. This would provide us a better understanding on what is needful during the trades, and give us some assurance that stricter rules and regulations are being put into place to safeguard the buyers and sellers.
    Need something to scratch that itchy hand of mine.

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    Re: Sales of shrimp

    Quote Originally Posted by mincedmeat View Post
    To safeguard the buyers and sellers.
    Pardon my ignorance, but I'm not aware of what brought on this straight "No shrimp" ban across the forum. I mean if the buyer/seller doesn't like what he/she sees during the meetup, then I guess the deal can be called off. My guess is that the seller promised the shrimps to be of a certain specific breed and they turned out (or the seller claimed) that it wasn't.

    With the Itrader rating system in place (though some people I've bought from don't use it), I suppose this can already be kept to the minimum. To me this screams buyer beware/caveat emptor.

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    Re: Sales of shrimp

    FYI, this is the thread after the one which ended again in gang up quarrel was removed.
    http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...Non-WR-gene-WR

    look at post #26.

    You don't see this behavior with the other sectors in the hobby.
    Discussions that are healthy is good, when it escalates to namecalling, accusations, backstabbing. It gets very, VERY, VERY UGLY.

    Best don't dwell on this as there are other channels.
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    Re: Sales of shrimp

    aiyoh. so simple. no trade/sales/ exchange liao you all still playing with words. NO means NO

    Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
    CRS - CRazy about Shrimps
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    Re: Sales of shrimp

    Just curious. Shrimp fanatics have a forum called shrimpnow right? They do not have buy/sell market place? I knowledge on shrimp hobby is very low so i am just wondering.
    Inspired by Amano Limited by Yusof Ishak

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    Re: Sales of shrimp

    Quote Originally Posted by bennyc View Post
    Just curious. Shrimp fanatics have a forum called shrimpnow right? They do not have buy/sell market place? I knowledge on shrimp hobby is very low so i am just wondering.
    If my memory serves me right, they don't allow trades of shrimp for quite sometime.
    think Nav will know better.
    Learning the hardway, not the highway.
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    Re: Sales of shrimp

    Quote Originally Posted by felix_fx2 View Post
    FYI, this is the thread after the one which ended again in gang up quarrel was removed.
    http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...Non-WR-gene-WR

    look at post #26.

    You don't see this behavior with the other sectors in the hobby.
    Discussions that are healthy is good, when it escalates to namecalling, accusations, backstabbing. It gets very, VERY, VERY UGLY.

    Best don't dwell on this as there are other channels.
    cannot be backstabbing because its posted in the thread.

    Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
    CRS - CRazy about Shrimps
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    You can't explain it simply, you don't understand it (well enough )..." - Albert Einstein

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    Re: Sales of shrimp

    There's another shrimp forum actually. Specially for shrimp buy/sell. PM me if you want the link. Not sure if I can post here.


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    Re: Sales of shrimp

    I think the purpose of starting this thread was really to find out what the moderators are doing to get things sorted out. Will it be till we sort out the genetics and naming conventions of the shrimps before allowing the sale of shrimps, or would it be to see also a straightening out of behaviour on the forums? It is probably tough for someone or even anyone to take an initiative to move things along unless we get a sense of the direction that we are heading.
    Need something to scratch that itchy hand of mine.

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    Re: Sales of shrimp

    It boils down to needs and wants, the world is full of it.

    Not sure I am offending anyone here (if so, i apologise first) but the way I see it; if there are other forums catering to shrimp hobbyists and allowing the trade there. Why open AQ mods to more problems in terms of control. I see AQ catered more towards the planted tank hobbyists and "fish" lovers have their "forum" too. This way the topics discussed and items traded will be more specific, hence easier to look through.

    Why make things complicated and have multiple forums serving the same purpose? (If all forums are discussing the same things/interests)

    Anyone feel the same way too?
    Inspired by Amano Limited by Yusof Ishak

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    Re: Sales of shrimp

    Diazman bro! I want the link of the shrimp forum. Thanks!

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    Re: Sales of shrimp

    mincedmeat,

    Basically it's all about straightening out the behavior of some members here. Too often we come across flame wars in the Inverts section, usually because of a select few members who decide that trolling would be more fun, instead of giving proper advice and discussing things through with a clear head. Some members who felt they were unfairly targeted in certain threads would ask for assistance so we have no choice to lock or delete contentious threads to prevent things from escalating further. This goes without saying when disputes occur due to buy/sell/trade between members, especially those who thought they were cheated when the shrimps they received did not match up to their expectations or they die upon arrival at home. Then comes the MOs when some members order but do not complete the deal etc. Ditto for those who buy to flip and those who constantly accuse others of doing unethical deals, especially with resellers etc. Not forgetting of course, members who make accusations without giving proof and then attacking those who disagree with their views.

    I understand the whole issue is all down to genetics and bloodlines, especially for CRS, but the trolling has to stop.

    Hence the mods came to a decision to totally ban any Sell/Buy/Trade of shrimps in AQ. We do not condone unethical deals and flipping, so to prevent any future misunderstanding and ill-will between our members, we decided to stay with the ban. Until people can work with the fact that things can and will go wrong, especially in deals involving livestock, the ban will remain in place.
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    Re: Sales of shrimp

    Firstly, let me shoulder some responsibility for taking a break from the forum and hobby because I wanted to spend time with pregnant wifey and now, my newborn.

    The ban came about because we felt that it may be good for the shrimp community to have a time out, get settled down and iron out all the problems before we consider if sales can resume. So far, from our observations, the contrary is true. The trading simply moves elsewhere (even in this thread, we have someone advertising for this) and the hostilities continues.

    On the whole, discussions at inverts are civil but compared to other sub-forums, there's more trolling, flame baiting and outright arguments that breaks out, with threats of defamation suits, wild accusations and general nastiness. When we spoke to those involved, many of these arguments came about because of perceived or suspected monetary interests, such as undeclared commercial interests, insidious advertising & profiteering that goes on outside this forum or offline.
    Other times, it was simply over ego and pride, because of perceived challenges or slights.

    Either way, the mods will have to step in but many times, members will expect us to play judge, jury and executioner. We have been entrusted with the ability to delete & lock threads, issue infraction and ban members or otherwise make changes to posts.
    However, we cannot and should not use these to entice, threaten or coerce other members into performing what is desired by one party or another. We cannot make people issue public apologies, cough up the money that was taken during a trade or produce hard evidence for something. That's something I've learnt the hard way.

    And we don't enjoy zapping people all the time. Our duties are to encourage participation, promote discussions and keep things neat. Not referee a verbal boxing match. Many times, it takes 2 hands to clap so regardless of who started it or who said nastier things, everyone involved are at fault.

    If we close an eye & let it pass too often, then things will either continue as it were or get worse.

    An example is the ban itself. Until today, we still have members who knowingly start shrimp threads in the marketplace. They either ignore all the obvious rules and conditions or even had the audacity to ask the marketplace mods to clean up after them "if this is not allowed".
    By the time the mods are informed, most of the deals would've been concluded and the seller couldn't care less if the thread is deleted or not. Such attitude does not put the shrimp community in a good light in front of the moderating team and admins, much less show that we are responsible enough to have the ban lifted.

    For many months, we've been giving the benefit of doubt & quietly deleting these threads or issuing reminders, but it just keeps happening. In fact, people were jokingly suggesting creative ways to get around the ban by selling tubs that comes with free shrimps. That is why we even had to ban giving of shrimps because some people really tried to "give" shrimps but collect money through other means.
    We are now going to put a stop to all this by fully enforcing the ban, fairly & with no exceptions.

    On the other hand, we don't like to come down hard all the time, because eventually no one will contribute anymore. That is already happening and its a shame.

    If there's any sense of directions we can provide, here's one from Vinz. We can start with making a basic guide about what to look out for when buying shrimps. Is this shrimp easy to keep, or dies readily? What are the various types available and what are the ones that beginners should avoid unless they know what they're prepared to lose the shrimps. How do we avoid being ripped off by unscrupulous sellers?

    There also needs to be some house rules about what kind of deals we will accept and what is considered flipping and unethical. What do we do with sly advertisers who "shares" photos and then use that to reach out to buyers? Or others who do MO's unofficially? Can we accept that and just move on?

    It's easy for us to point to "buyer beware/caveat emptor" but the fact is, when these deals go sour, people will get angry and they'll come back to the forums to seek "justice" or "warn others". What do we do then?
    Last edited by Navanod; 20th Feb 2013 at 19:37.

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    Re: Sales of shrimp

    Quote Originally Posted by bennyc View Post
    Just curious. Shrimp fanatics have a forum called shrimpnow right? They do not have buy/sell market place? I knowledge on shrimp hobby is very low so i am just wondering.
    Shrimpnow used to have a buy/sell, way before my time as a mod. I can still find bits of pieces of references to it when I search through the mod sections.
    The decision to totally remove buy/sell and even merchant ads was because of more complicated problems, such as international smuggling of shrimps, which the forum wanted to be no part of.

  16. #16
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    Re: Sales of shrimp

    International smuggling of shrimps? Bringing back of shrimps after oversea trips is it?

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    Re: Sales of shrimp

    The section on international smuggling in Navanod's post is in reference to Shrimpnow forums. The smuggling in this case is illegally sending live shrimp through the mail to others overseas. Locally, SingPost does not allow live animals to be sent via mail services. To do so legally, one has to use a farm or someone else with a valid export permit to do so. As for other nations, I know it is legal to send live animals within the EU, but not so for us here in Singapore.
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    Re: Sales of shrimp

    Thanks stormhawk for your explanation.

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    Sales of shrimp

    Hi sorry but could I clarify something.
    The buying section of the forums allow shrimp right? But what if I wanted a seperate item, unrelated to shrimp. Would offering to trade for shrimp OR other items or cash be allowed.
    Thanks mods.

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    Re: Sales of shrimp

    "Indefinite BAN of Shrimp Sales on AQ w.e.f. from Monday 20th Aug 2012

    We have decided to disallow the sales, giving and trading of shrimp through AQ from Monday, 20th Aug 2012 onwards until further notice. The main reasons is the quarrelsome and contentious nature of some shrimp hobbyists, especially when it comes to sales of shrimp."

    Trading seems quite general, and interpretations will be subjective. I believe most of us see it as transactions of shrimps.
    As per the rule, trading is definitely not allowed.
    As for buying, maybe mods can clear the air.

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