Questions regarding New Tank cycling , plants deficiency symptoms , EI dosing.

[hiisoka]

Hi guys,


i've just set up a my tank about on 9th of january.


i'd just like to ask if there's anything wrong with my setup.


Tank statistics
Tank dimension: 55cm x 25cm x 30cm
volume: approx 9 gallon or 41litres
lighting: 2 x 24W T5HO, osram lumilux 880 skywhite (8000K)
co2: 3bps << not sure about ppm but on the drop checker i have a very bright yellowish green color.
filtration: eheim 2213


fert dosing daily (since day1):
seachem K - 5ml
seachem PO4 - 2ml

seachem Fe - 1ml
ADA step1 - 2ml (i read from internet that its mainly trace elements)



i omitted dosing NO3 because i read that its not necessary for the initial part as the tank is cycling and im using ADA Amazonia, which are a rich source of NO3. (not too sure about that, but didnt want to overdose).
Anyway,
i had very good growth for the first week, the myrophillum mattogrossense and rotala wallichi had a really good growth spurt over the week, especially the wallichi. also a lot of oxygen bubbling from the plants. the growth was really good and i had to trim them as soon as 1week after planting. And thereafter the first trim i did a partial water change (about 30%)


Problems begin to surface:
Then i noticed, diatoms appeared. i thought no biggie, they do appear during cycling before in my old tanks. Then i start noticing that some of my plants are turning a little yellowish, particularly the plants on the left side of the tank (where my filter inlet and outlet are). my co2 diffuser was on the right side.


i had 1 shrimp dead in there already and another MIA ( i presume dead but cant find the carcass).
Did some tests last night.
ammonia reading is high. 40ppm
nitrite (didnt test, ran out of test solution)
nitrate reading non-existent
ph: 6 (could be even lower)
gh: 6
kh: 2


Did a 40% water change today and
since i identified that i could have a nitrate or iron deficiency, i started adding 5ml of nitrate (seachem nitrogen) to my daily dosing regime. But i am unsure if im on the right track.



heres the list of Plants and their Symptoms:
1. myrophillum mattogrossense - some had old leaves turning brownish/yellowish after trim
2. rotala wallichi - not having new growth (yet) after trim
3. rotala nanjenshan - bottom old leaves turning a little brown around the edges
4. bolbitis heudeoloti (on DW) - melting / turning a dark shade of green/brown
5. hemanithus micranthemoides - most are doing ok, except for 1 or 2 stalks i planted on foreground turning yellow
6. ceratopteris thalictroides - most are doing ok.
7. anubias barteri nana petite (on lava rock) - all ok
8. bucephelandra (on DW) - all looks ok
9. willow moss (on DW) - brown from day1, still brown mostly although some new green growth seen sporadically.
10. weeping moss (on DW) - all ok
11. spiky moss (on DW) - all ok
12. riccardia chamedryfolia (on mesh and lava rock) - turns dull
13. fissiden fontanus (on mesh) - turns dull
14. flame moss (on DW) - no significant growth yet
15. hydrocotyle sibthorpoides (on DW) - new growth spotted, though some old leaves turning yellow
16. hemianthus callitrichoides ( on Lava rock) - pale slightly yellowish, though new growth vertical growth spotted


(the plants are bubbling O2 very well , especially the wallichi and nanjenshan and mattogrossense,
even the cut and brown/yellowish ones, thats why im scratching my head at the moment)


Hope you guys can share your valuable experience and perhaps let me know where i might have gone wrong (lack of dosing of a particular nutrient??) I hope to rectify it as soon as possible.


Thanks!!

[Urban Aquaria]

Your tank specs and fert dosing look okay... as the tank is still in the first few weeks of startup and the plants were recently planted, its part of the transition process, the weaker old leaves are just dying off during the transition period to make way for the newer leaves.

For the fast growing stem plants, its best to let them grow out, cut the healthy transitioned tops, remove the old bottoms (they will just keep deteriorating anyways), then replant the healthy tops, that will ensure you get best growth from new stems and eaves which are already acclimated to your tank conditions. Do that a few times and you'll get nice lush hedges of stem plants very soon.

[Ingen]

I always thought ADA Amazonia releases ammonia and that goes through the nitrogen cycle that converts it into nitrate, correct me if I'm wrong. With that assumption, if the tank is new, would it also mean that there is minimum nitrate produced as it's still in the cycling process?

[Shadow]

You start 9 Jan, your ammonia 40ppm, your tank not cycled yet. The plants probably just adapting, wait longer and see how.

[Pork Life]

I always thought ADA Amazonia releases ammonia and that goes through the nitrogen cycle that converts it into nitrate, correct me if I'm wrong. With that assumption, if the tank is new, would it also mean that there is minimum nitrate produced as it's still in the cycling process?

Theoretically that's true but if your water source got nitrates present, your tank reading will show some nitrates readings. And plants rather use ammonia (or ammonium if pH lower than 7 if I remember correctly) than nitrates as a source of nitrogen. Nitrates shouldn't be a big time issue for fauna that are more hardy but of course there will still be damage caused to their bodies but effect will take longer to show up as compared to ammonia and nitrite poisoning.

If you are totally paranoid about having elevated levels of nitrates, maybe can use RO/DI water or distilled water to change water or cheaper and simplest way is to dump in tons of hornwort and floating plants.

[Urban Aquaria]

I always thought ADA Amazonia releases ammonia and that goes through the nitrogen cycle that converts it into nitrate, correct me if I'm wrong. With that assumption, if the tank is new, would it also mean that there is minimum nitrate produced as it's still in the cycling process?

Well, brand new bags of ADA Amazonia Aquasoil actually have ammonium, nitrogen, phosphate and various trace nutrient content already in the soil, so its designed to provide "food" for the plants during the initial grow-out stages (plants consume ammonia as a nutrient too).

Found a reference chart, doesn't show the "New" Amazonia soil though, but just some comparison amongst the older versions:



Source: http://www.aquajournal.ro/static/www...001/index.html

I guess that's why the ADA guides only recommend dosing their Brightly K (which is just potassium) and Green Brightly Step 1/2/3 (which are mainly trace elements) during the initial period of grow-out time... but there isn't any specific mention of dosing nitrates or phosphates during that initial period (its only recommended later when the plants establish and start to require more of it), presumably those are already supplied by the soil, fish feed and waste process via the early tank cycle.

[thebaldingaquarist]

Work the filtration. High levels of ammonia indicate filter media is not mature. If possible use some live bacteria from an established tank (ask your friendly neighborhood planted tank hobbyists if they are cleaning media soon).

high levels of ammonia will lead to spikes in ammonia. Do regular water changes until your ammonia is very low and nitrates are stable. I would not place in fauna at the moment...

[hiisoka]

Thanks for all the advice guys, i'll wait for the cycling to be complete (try to accelerate with mature media from my office aro tank)
as for the plants i'll dose as per normal and wait for them to settle down

Thanks

[hiisoka]

an update:

saw some of my plants melting.
particularly some of the hemianthus micranthemoides

some of my buceps have melted leaves.

bolbitis are generally in bad shape, i cut off all the affected leaves already.

and i forgot to mention in my first post, i also plantd lilaeopsis brasiliensis.
i see some vertical growth but starting to turn a little yellow too.

mosses are doing ok except for willow moss still very brown.
riccardia dull not green

myrophillium mattogrossense mixed results, the ones in the background
are doing better than the one closer to the front.

my tank temp is at the 24-25°C range

the rotala nanjenshan are flourishing though. lots of new growth
and new branches emerging. same for most of the rotala wallichi.



im thinking i might have to tweak something. can you guys advise me if i planted wrongly.
for some of the stem plants (except wallichi) i planted 2-3 stalks together. maybe i should seperate them
further?


and also my lighting. currently im running 2 x 24W T5HO over about 9gallons. co2 well its 3-4 bps
is it overkill? and because of that the nutrients in the tank deplete much faster than it should
and resulting in nutrient deficiencies in my plants??
should i just switch on 1 of the 24W T5HO tube instead of both??? so i wont have issues of nutrient deficiency

[atolylica]

Circulation is as important as discussion on CO2, ferts and lights. Ensure your water is well circulated so that the CO2 and nutrients are well circulated.

[thebaldingaquarist]

Any change in water parameters?

[golfball]

You can consider these:
1. lighting~ 2X24 is OK. Photo period can shorter say 6 to 7 hrs, then 8 to 10 after your tank stable and algae controlled.
C02 ~ maybe slightly high. Esp if drop checker still yellow hours after light off. Need to monitor your fish or shrimps not stressed.
Ferts ~ I feel that's Ok too. Maybe even be on high side. esp. phosphates, nitrate and the seachem Fe. Can do alternate days Instead of daily and See how after couple of weeks.
Circulation ~ 2213 should be generally ok. If some parts of tank circulation no good, you can add small 5 to 10W water pumps to move water at those places as long as don't bcome washing machine. Can remove the pumps after tank matures if you think its not nice looking.
More frequent water change (2 to 3 times per week.) helps in the 1st month.
I prefer planting stem plants like rotalas individually to get More light to reach lower parts. If lower stems become ratty, you can replace them with healthy topped stems.
v. important: cleaning tank, remove dead leaves, water change frequently during the week. Don't add live stock like Shrimps and fish before tank is cycled as they will die.
It may take 2 to 3 months for tank to slowly mature and plants to finally adapt and thrive. Those that melted just let go (remember to quickly remove dead plants) and keep tank fully planted with easy to grow plants. After tank cycled and settled down, you can consider replacing them.

[hiisoka]

Any change in water parameters?

Ammonia dropped from 4ppm to 2ppm
sorry i got a typo earlier , it was 4 not 40

No nitrates yet

Ph: 6 (could be even lesser, didnt change color at all)
Gh: 8
Kh: 1 (or less? didnt change color at all too)

just did a 20% wc
dosing as per normal.
i on both light tubes as well.

[hiisoka]

You can consider these:
1. lighting~ 2X24 is OK. Photo period can shorter say 6 to 7 hrs, then 8 to 10 after your tank stable and algae controlled.
C02 ~ maybe slightly high. Esp if drop checker still yellow hours after light off. Need to monitor your fish or shrimps not stressed.
Ferts ~ I feel that's Ok too. Maybe even be on high side. esp. phosphates, nitrate and the seachem Fe. Can do alternate days Instead of daily and See how after couple of weeks.
Circulation ~ 2213 should be generally ok. If some parts of tank circulation no good, you can add small 5 to 10W water pumps to move water at those places as long as don't bcome washing machine. Can remove the pumps after tank matures if you think its not nice looking.
More frequent water change (2 to 3 times per week.) helps in the 1st month.
I prefer planting stem plants like rotalas individually to get More light to reach lower parts. If lower stems become ratty, you can replace them with healthy topped stems.
v. important: cleaning tank, remove dead leaves, water change frequently during the week. Don't add live stock like Shrimps and fish before tank is cycled as they will die.
It may take 2 to 3 months for tank to slowly mature and plants to finally adapt and thrive. Those that melted just let go (remember to quickly remove dead plants) and keep tank fully planted with easy to grow plants. After tank cycled and settled down, you can consider replacing them.

thanks, i'll continue with 2x24 then, shorten the photo period to 6hrs.

for circulation i do have a nano wavemaker which i can use, (but the flow it create is very strong haha..)
just did a WC after removing dead leaves. will observe from there.

Thanks for the advice

[thebaldingaquarist]

i feel that some of the plants are adapting.

But its the HM and MM that are puzzling. assuming that the same batch of HM and MM is planted, its strange that one part of it is growing and one part of it is dying.

indicates, uneven lighting or uneven distribution of CO2 or ferts in water or soil.