new to planted tanks need some advice

[iamafish]

hi there

i am new to this hobby and planning to get one soon so need your expertise advice.

currently i have a 3 ft cupboard stand meant for a old 3 ft (90x45x45) fish tank but this tank not suitable for planted tank as it is a ios.

here are my questions below

1) i wonder if i should get a 2 ft (60x30x36) tank as it is more easy to manage? but will it look odd on the 3 ft top since it is smaller?

2) what are the most basic stuff i need to get to keep neon tetra and some simple shrimps and easy plant that is hardy? please advice the spieces too.

3) anybody use ada cube or ans optic clear tank before? any difference? or which is better for clarity?

4) is a chiller a must for this setup?

5) as for led lighting, is ada aquasky 601 good? or can get a cheaper version of uo aqua pro z will do the function?

6) for co2 is it better to get a solenoid or without? what is it for?

7) co2 needs to run 24 hours a day? how long normally does it last? where is the best place to do refill?

is shiruba xb310 a good one? for either 2 or 3 ft tank? or any other better suggestions?

9) good to use ans intense atomizer S or L? or better use the traditional one like cup?

thanks for the advance advices... have a great weekend.

[ZacNg]

Hi I can help you with some answers, hope the other shifus would answers those I'm not sure about also.

1) i wonder if i should get a 2 ft (60x30x36) tank as it is more easy to manage? but will it look odd on the 3 ft top since it is smaller?

2ft is normally recommended if you are just starting in this hobby as it gives you enough leeway and easier to manage your water parameter. As for the looks purpose you can put your filter and CO2 in the extra 1ft space.

2) what are the most basic stuff i need to get to keep neon tetra and some simple shrimps and easy plant that is hardy? please advice the spieces too.

If you are going planted then no need air pump. So basic things would be light, filter, CO2 and fertilizers (for plants) and test kits to measure your water parameter

3) anybody use ada cube or ans optic clear tank before? any difference? or which is better for clarity?

I would think ADA cube would be better for clarity but the price way too high for me. I using Fresh n Marine 1.5ft tank and it looks good so far and only cost me $28.

4) is a chiller a must for this setup?

None of my tanks has chiller. 2 of my tanks are in my room with air-con on at night so the temperature is around 24-27 degrees. The tank in my living room is around 28 degrees. So far my plants and fishes are doing well so I doubt you need a chiller unless you want to keep sensitive fishes and shrimps.

5) as for led lighting, is ada aquasky 601 good? or can get a cheaper version of uo aqua pro z will do the function?

ADA aquasky provides good lighting for plants which require high light. But if you are not growing those, a cheaper version would be enough. I am growing Micranthemum 'Monte Carlo' in my 1.5ft tank and using Up Aqua Pro Z. So far so good with no melting so the choice is up to the. Up aqua I bought was $68 I think and the Aquasky would cost me $300+??

6) for co2 is it better to get a solenoid or without? what is it for?

I would suggest going for solenoid. It is using electric to regulate your CO2. Without it you have to regulate it manually and trust me, it's a pain in the butt. I exploded 1 bubble counter and 1 check valve before giving up and getting a solenoid. With solenoid, you can also attach it to a timer and you can just sit back and enjoy your tank.

7) co2 needs to run 24 hours a day? how long normally does it last? where is the best place to do refill?

CO2 only needs to run 1 hour before your lights turn on/off. I bought a 3L CO2 tank from Fishy Business and use it for about 4 months now and still running well. Price it defers from place to place. People can get it from NA, Fishy Business, Seaview, C328 and many other places so choose one which is convenient for you.

is shiruba xb310 a good one? for either 2 or 3 ft tank? or any other better suggestions?

Have't used any of it so hopefully other shifu can help you with this.

9) good to use ans intense atomizer S or L? or better use the traditional one like cup?

For your tank a M atomizer would be enough I think. The atomizer releases smaller bubbles as compared to the traditional type ones and I got both. The downside to using atomizer is that you need to use CO2 tube all the way and the way it works is that it stores the pressures of CO2 then releases it into the tank so might be a little dangerous if using for the first time. Got multiple cuts from the exploding of my bubble counter and check valve as proof haha.

Hope this helps.

[mUAr_cHEe]

I am equally new as well but I would like to share my thoughts on this.

I did not know that IOS tanks are not good for Planted tanks, but I do not think that would be an issue. You can just reuse your old tank. A bigger tank is more manageable and more room for creativity!

1. Smaller water volume would mean less margin for error when water parameters change. To me, that makes it less manageable and more management! As for the 'look', as they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It is just whether can you visually take in the sight of a small tank on a bigger stand. It would also depend on what kind of stand you have.

2. Low Tech Tan has redefined what is the basic stuff you need for a simple set up. He made a set up with only lighting. No filtration system and no fan. http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...rogress-Report

But then again if you want an easier set up, you would need at least a mechanical filtration system and lights for your plants. I am using this set up now. I added on a fan later to bring down the temperature of the water.

You can refer to tropica.com for a guide of easy plants or you can browse through the forum for the wealth of information that is already there. Personally, I have success with star moss and cabombas. I am on a look out for more plants after some advice from fellow forum members on my set up. http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...erious-problem

3. No comment on this but I feel all this is subjective as well. Previously from my marine aquaria hobby, starphire glass makes a hell of a difference when it comes to appreciating the true colours of SPS aka hard corals. But the financial investment in it is rather significant compared to normal tanks.

4. A chiller is a must for certain species of flora and fauna. It again depends on what you like and what you want. Do your research and maybe experiment it yourself.

5. I guess everything that is ADA is good. I believe you are just paying more for the brand and the design. Anything else will be able to do what you want as long as you get the specifications lined up.

6. I just figured this out. A solenoid is just an electrical switch for you to turn your CO2 system on or off. Otherwise, a CO2 system will be switch on and off manually by turning that big knob on the top off and on. So again it depends on how you intend to run your CO2 system but for my own purpose, I concluded that I need to get an electronic solenoid to run my 'hands-off' CO2 system. I travel quite abit for my job and I am now doing 14-hour work days. (Yes. I love my job.)

7. This, I am still not entirely sure. But from my research so far, CO2 cannot be run 24/7. CO2 should only be run when the lights are on or maybe a while before the lights kick on. This balances up the flora's need for CO2 and the fauna's need for O2. Imagine if you ran CO2 at night, when the floras themselves are already producing CO2, the whole tank might get suffocated or pH might also spike due to excessive CO2. I have read that the tanks could last up to 6 months or a year, again dependent on tank size and usage. A 3L tank that is ran at 2 bps will run out faster than a 2L tank that is set to run at 1 bps. Considering transportation cost and where you bought your first tank, I would think that it is best to just change the tank at any LFS nearest to you or most convenient for you.

8. I am an Eheim supporter, so no comment on Shiruba. However, if you are using the IOS tank, why not run a sump instead? You increase your water volume, thus making the parameters more stable. It would be the perfect place for you to start your dosing and also for later expansion where you can run all your equipment in it without affecting the look of your display tank, giving your tank a more natural look without the extra probes and tubes running inside the tank.

9. Again, you got to consider your application and set up to decide between a small or large atomizer. I would prefer to use cup as it looks more elegant and would at least do its job good enough. I can imagine that an atomizer would be more effective and again if I was running a sump. I would use the atomizer in the sump for better efficiency without affecting the look of my tank.

[mUAr_cHEe]

Maybe the more senior and established aquarist here can share their insight on IOS tanks. The above I shared on IOS is based on the 'logic' that I have. Then again my 'logic' is questionable since I enjoy my '14 hour work days'.

I just cannot imagine a problem using IOS other than Algae growth when the tank is more established. Then again, I do not understand how is that a problem as I do see a beauty in this kind of excessive algae build-up.

[Urban Aquaria]

IOS tanks can be used for planted tanks too... the only reason why they are not so commonly used for aquascaping is because for the 3ft tank (or larger) versions, the IOS filtration is usually placed either on the left or right side, so that is one less viewing panel. In addition, the IOS filter compartments uses up space within the tank, so that means less space for the aquascape itself too.

That being said, i've seen planted tanks that are used to partition spaces in a home and the IOS side is positioned width-wise against the wall, so the tank is still viewable from 3 sides. Some people also use IOS tanks if they are running those full height cabinet or recessed in-wall setups where the back and sides are all covered, only the front is not covered, so in that case no difference since the tank can only be viewed from the front anyways.

With IOS tanks you can get attachments to adjust the outflow shape and position so not too much issue with creating proper circulation in the tank.

I guess the choice of what tank type to use just depends on the overall aesthetics you are going for, hence both IOS and braceless type tanks can be used for aquascaping.

[iamafish]

hi all,

appreciate the kind advice, my ios comes with a hole in the bottom where it also suck up the water together with the top and if i put soil all will be sucked up too lol..

[iamafish]

oh yes i do not think i can post any thread in the give away section, so anybody is interested to get my FOC still breakfree 3 ft with side internal ios from top and bottom, you are most welcome. 90x45x45 with side bracing.

[Urban Aquaria]

Just my take on the points...

1) i wonder if i should get a 2 ft (60x30x36) tank as it is more easy to manage? but will it look odd on the 3 ft top since it is smaller?

2ft tanks are a good combination of size and water volume (it'll look okay on a 3ft cabinet stand, just more empty space around it)... but the larger the tank volume the easier to keep parameters stable (less sudden fluctuations and more time to react to problems) and hence easier to manage, so since you have the space, go for a larger 3ft tank if possible.

2) what are the most basic stuff i need to get to keep neon tetra and some simple shrimps and easy plant that is hardy? please advice the spieces too.

For the common small fishes (ie. neon tetras, rasboras etc), cherry shrimps and low-demand plants, just need a moderate amount of light for the tank (check out what others use in their tanks and how their plants grow, then gauge from there) and good filtration and circulation (go for 10x flow rate and work from there). You can try low-demand plants like anubias, mosses, java ferns for a start, and try easy fast growing stem plants like water wisteria or water sprite, can even try plants like the various rotala, ludwigia, micranthemum species too (and many more).

One of the ways to see if the plants are relatively low-demand is to just look at those that are sold for $1 in pots displayed in LFS plant retail tanks, there is a reason why they are cheap and plentiful... those are usually the easier to grow ones.

3) anybody use ada cube or ans optic clear tank before? any difference? or which is better for clarity?

Both brands of tanks use low-iron high clarity glass, which is much clearer than the normal float glass used in most common tanks. The difference between the brands would be the grade of glass clarity (this tends to be abit difficult to differentiate because the glass used is already so clear), overall workmanship (especially the silicone seams), warranty support and the price. You'll have to personally view them and compare to see if they are worth the difference in prices. Ultimately, it all depends on your budget.

4) is a chiller a must for this setup?

Its good to have but not essential... most tropical fishes, shrimps and plants we keep can live within the range of our normal daily local temperatures (even if it gets warmer during hot weather for periods of time), as long as the temperature changes are gradual and not too sudden, they can adapt. They experience similar temperature changes in nature anyways.

If you are keeping certain fishes or shrimp species that require constant cooler water to live, then you'll have to use a chiller.

5) as for led lighting, is ada aquasky 601 good? or can get a cheaper version of uo aqua pro z will do the function?

This will depend on the tank size and height, but generally for up to 36cm height, go for LED lights that have sufficient wattage and LEDs to create good light coverage (nowadays most are using arrays of individual 0.5W LEDs). The ADA aquasky is good, as well as the Up Aqua Pro Z, both have been used to grow plants successfully. Their prices can vary quite greatly though (based on design, brand etc), it all depends on your budget.

If you are running larger tanks with height 45cm or taller, then you'll need to look at using LED lights with higher powered LEDs (ie. arrays of individual 3W LEDs), to ensure enough light intensity reaches all sections of the tank, especially those plants growing at the lower sections of the tank.

6) for co2 is it better to get a solenoid or without? what is it for?

Co2 injection is more convenient and easier to control with a solenoid regulator, it allows you to connect the solenoid to a plug timer so that you can precisely schedule when it will switch on or off (so you don't have to manually do it every day). This fully automates your Co2 injection system.

7) co2 needs to run 24 hours a day? how long normally does it last? where is the best place to do refill?

Co2 doesn't need to be injected 24 hours a day, it is only required when the lights are on and the plants are taking in Co2 for photosynthesis. When the lights are off, Co2 is not needed anymore. Continuting to inject Co2 after the lights are off will just add more and more Co2 to the water, and since its not used and it may build up to a point to become toxic for fishes and shrimps.

Some people still do run their Co2 on 24hours though (ie. DIY Co2 systems or those with manual regulators), for those setups, they adjust the Co2 injection rate much lower, so that the Co2 buildup is much slower throughout. The limitations here is it more difficult to keep the Co2 concentration stable and there is a chance of the Co2 levels building too high without regular monitoring.

8 ) is shiruba xb310 a good one? for either 2 or 3 ft tank? or any other better suggestions?

I haven't used the 310 model before, but i have used the 305 model and it works well without issues. I guess you could look at the more popular Eheim canisters and compare it with models with equivalent flow rates and features, the difference in price may not be as wide and hence worth considering.

9) good to use ans intense atomizer S or L? or better use the traditional one like cup?

For ceramic-based Co2 diffusion, its better to go for those that create the smallest bubbles (smaller bubbles = more effective surface areas for better diffusion). Atomizers type diffusers usually make very tiny bubbles but they do require a Co2 regulator that has a high enough working pressure to operate too, so you have to check on that before using them.

The glass cup-shaped ones look nicer though, so once again it depends on aesthetics too.

[Urban Aquaria]

hi all,

appreciate the kind advice, my ios comes with a hole in the bottom where it also suck up the water together with the top and if i put soil all will be sucked up too lol..

Okay, then that kind of IOS design wouldn't be suitable for planted tank with soil substrate.