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Thread: A Major Disaster!

  1. #1

    A Major Disaster!

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    Hi guys,

    I've got a 4 feet by 1.5 feet by 1.5 feet tank, with plants like the hygrophilia, red tiger lotus, eel grass (vallisneria-like) and another species of plant i can't name. i'm not sure about the wattage of the lights, but i have 4 light bulbs which span the length of the tank. the base of the tank has fertiliser with about 3 inches of gravel above it.

    i've been having various problems:

    1. BBA algae is growing in large amounts and covering the entire bogwood i have, and growing on some plants and snails too. i've read that upping the co02 level will help, but i don't have a ph kit, nor do i intend to, due to lack of funds! anyway, i was wondering how many bubbles per second are needed for my tank?

    2. the three discus fish are bullying the fourth one, and it always hides in one corner, not to mention its fins are nipped and its colour dull.

    3. the plants, after about 1.5 weeks of light and co2, don't seem to be growing much. is it because i've transplanted them, and they've yet to grow roots?

    4. the aquascape (if any) looks horrible. the plants don't seem to match one another. does anyone have any ideas at all how to combine all the plants to make the tank nice?

    i know you guys have your own lives to lead, but i would REALLY appreciate it if you could take the time to advise me.
    really could do with some help.

    thanks so much in advance!

  2. #2
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    Re: A Major Disaster!

    The wattage is usually indicated at one end of the tube.

    I think for the amount of light you have, your CO2 isn't enough. If a pH kit is out of your range, you just have to up your CO2 as much as possible (stepwise) and monitor to ensure your fish don't succumb. Fish can handle up to 30-40 mg/l. it takes sustained, high CO2 levels (at least a couple of weeks) to produce BBA reduction.

    Discus, like most cichlids, are temperamental and territorial. You could try separating the bullied fish (with a glass panel perhaps) or providing more hiding places.

    Is your tank brand new (just 1.5 weeks old?) or have you had it a while? Brand new tanks and BBA are a bit unusual. If you had added the fish straightaway, the resulting ammonia spike could have helped the algae.

    Can't advise you on aquascaping, except to browse the members' tanks and gallery here for ideas.

    With high light, CO2 tanks, it's pretty important to make sure that adequate fertiliser is provided. Not knowing what base fert you have, I would still suggest you read the "Articles on Dosing" thread in the aquatic FAQ section, especially the articles by Tom Barr for good pointers.

  3. #3
    thanks for your reply!

    my tank isn't a new one, it's been almost 10 months in fact.
    with regards to the co2 dosage, how many bubbles per second?
    i know nothing about the 'ppm' and'mg/l' since i don't use a ph kit.

    thanks!

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    Re:

    Did you just add Co2 recently? I am afraid once you start on this, it's vital to understand how one measures CO2 and fertilisation. ppm=mg/l. As I said, without pH and KH test kits (and the AQ online calculator), the only thing you can do is keep on increasing your bubble count (you cannot reliably estimate CO2 level using bubble count) as much as possible, without distressing your fish. And make sure your CO2/lights are coordinated (8-10 hours daily). And learn from the fertilisation articles I pointed to.

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    IMO, think that it is time for you to start reading some of the articles within AQ to have a better understanding about the basics of having planted tanks. Click on Articles to find your necessary info. Next check on the FAQ in the forum for relevant websites discussing about setting up plant tank.

    You can also easily gather write-ups about how to set up a planted tank in the internet.

    For a start, i think it is necessary to know what is KH, pH, relationship between CO2, KH and pH, GH, NPK. Search the internet for relevant topics with reference to planted tanks.

    Then it would make sense for you of what the moderators or fellow forumers are going to tell you thereafter. Otherwise, there are tons of info that they pass on which makes no sense to you at all.

    Regards,[/list]

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    Like what Budak said, you can't accurately measure CO2 by bps (bubble per second). But a good guess would be 3bps for 4ft tank. How are you injecting the CO2 into the tank? Different methods also affect how effective CO2 is dissolved into the water.

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    giddygid, could you not use the PM for this thread? Thanks

    on your PM question: there is no way to tell how many bubbles per second you need. Some tanks do ok with 1-2, others with 5-6 or more. bubbles mean absolutely nothing. Co2 levels can only be measured by testing the KH and pH of the tank. The kits aren't too expensive... probably about 30 bucks in toto, for sets that will last you a year or more.

    Aim at 25-30 mg/l of CO2. Also, if you add baking soda to increase KH, you will find that for any given pH level, a higher KH level (best is 4-5) will give you a higher Co2 level.

    if you want to save $$, you just have to keep on increasing your CO2 level (from your cylinder) manually. The plants won't complain, but your fish might. But why use guesstimation and risk your livestock?

  8. #8
    i'm using this co2 diffuser, which consists of a long cylinder with balls which rotate when the filter output is pumped through it. the co2 is fed into the cylinder via a small tube..

    3bps? wow..i always thought 1bps was more than enough..haha
    looks like i was wrong!

  9. #9
    budak:

    sorry for the pm
    was just wondering if you would return to this forum to see my reply.

    thanks for the advice, i might get a kit soon!

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    3 inches of gravel may be a bit tough for the creeping plants to reach the fert. on the other hand, I personally believe in going easy on water column fertilising especially if your plants have good roots.

    I think your lights is 4×36W which is only adequate, not really high since you have 4×1.5 feet of surface to cover. nevertheless pushing up the CO2 apparently discourages BBA. also lighting hours should be no more than 10.
    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona · crumenatum · Galleria Botanica

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    Well, not that I recommend this to newbies but since you could not even afford a couple of bucks for a narrow range pH test kit, you can use riccia as a CO2 indicator.

    Before you do that, make sure that your nitrate, phosphate, potassium, GH(Mg/Ca) and traces are good or else you can and would kill your critters. Look up on the estimative index method on the forum and dose accordingly. Inject the CO2 only when the light is on and not 24/7. Ensure that your bubble rate is stable once it is set and does not move around. Once you are sure of the above mentioned stuff can you go ahead and do the method...Add CO2 at 1bps rate and increase slowly per day till you get nice pearling on the riccia. (Do it slowly!) You should see the riccia pearl towards the end of the day if the nutrients and CO2 are good. Oh, one last thing..you need the KH to be above 1 at least but safer range is 2-3.

    Regards
    Peter Gwee

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    Yeah. I agree with the rest. First, You need to read up alot. Check out Chuck's website. And do a search on "Tom Barr" on this website. It will give you lotsa insight.

    Get the basic right. If something is wrong. Look at them in priorities:

    1) Light
    2) CO2
    3) Macro nutrients, NPK
    4) Micro nutrients, Traces + Iron

  13. #13
    ok, i've checked the water parameters.

    nitrites: 0 mg/l
    nitrates: 10 mg/l
    kh: 3°d
    gh: 6-7°d
    ph: around 7
    temperature: 28°c

    could i have some advice based on these?

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    KH 3 / PH 7 -> CO2 only 9ppm which is low. Increase CO2 until your PH is about 6.6-6.7 to give 20ppm of CO2.
    Also you mentioned only nitrate, what nutrients are you dosing now?

  15. #15
    hi,

    will increasing the bubbles from 1bps to 3bps be enough?
    the only nutrients are the base fertiliser, and this liquid fertiliser which came with the co2 package. didn't list what nutrients there are inside..

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    Re:

    I think we are going around in circles here..... getting dizzy.....
    giddygid.... could you try reading up up the Co2 injection/fert (in the Aquatic FAQ section) in the meantime? I think it has been said that bps doesn't help in measuring Co2. KH/pH measurement and sustained CO2 delivery (a good diffusor or reactor) is more important.

  17. #17
    right..just read the FAQs.

    still don't understand one thing:
    i've always thought aquatic root fertilisers such as root monsters are meant for inducing rapid plant growth even when there's base fertiliser?

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    Re:

    in short: base ferts and root monsters do the same thing... some people just like to be kiasu... nothing wrong with that (I do it too)..... but eventually all base fert will run out (and also many plants don't feed from the substrate) and you will need to dose the nutrients plants need: N, P, K, Fe, Ca, Mg, Mn, S, Cu, etc..... many people dose N,P and K separately for better control.. .. while the micros are usually provided via a PMDD or commercial product like Tropica MasterGrow or Profito. Making sure the plants get enough nutrients, light and sustained, high CO2 is vital for both good plant growth AND algae control. That's the gist of it...... unfortunately there is no easy all-in-one solution or product.

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