bba in non CO2 low maint tank

[af2373]

as abv, these 2-3 days, noticed small traces of bba and hair algae growing on on the roots of the ferns in my 30 USG gallon non co2 tank. info as below :


Tank Dimensions (LxWxH): 24" x 18" x 18"
Lighting Intensity(No of Watts) : 45
Type of Lighting (FL/PL/MH) : PL
No. of Hours your light is on: 8hrs
CO2 Injection Rate (bps) : Nil
Type of CO2 (DIY/Liquid/Tank) : Nil
Method of Injection (e.g. Diffusor/Reactor): Nil
Substrate Used : ADA soil topped with bio gravel
How Thick is your base fert :
How thick is your gravel :
Liquid Fertilizers Used : Seachem flourish, seachem Eq
Frequency of fertilization : flourish twice weekly but stopped 2 weeks ago, Eq dosed once; 0.3ml.
Tank Temperature : 26-27degrees
Type of Filter (overhead/internal/canister) : canister
Filter media used :
How long has your tank been set up : 3mths


Chemical Properties (Fill what you can)
---------------------------------------

Carbonate Hardness (kh): 4
Total Hardness (gH):
PH : 6.9
NH4 (ppm):
NO2 (ppm):
NO3 (ppm):
PO4 (ppm):
Fe (ppm):

Bioload (Your Fish and Plants)
------------------------------
13 cardinals
1 swordtail
30-40 cherry shrimps
10 bee shrimps
1 cory
2 hillstream loach
1 otos

plants include:
java ferns, windelov ferns, crypts, mosses. h. difformis, frogbits

Describe your problem :

murphy's law came true....

tank has been setup for 3mths. been adding seachem flourish twice weekly but since stopped for fortnight as i hope it would be self sufficient. a week ago, started dosing 0.3ml of seachem Eq once. no other ferts such as KNO3, KH2PO4 etc added. water change done twice only during startup phase. lightings has been 2 x 15W FL for the past 3 mths, but has since upped it to 3 x 15W FL over the weekend. doubt it's the increased wattage causing the prob as i noticed the bba when the tank was better luminated.


picture of the tank as attached.
http://www.arofanatics.com/members/af2373/maintanks/
the tank in prob is the 3rd and 4th pic.

what seems to be the prob in this tank?
high bioload?
insufficient/ improper fert?
water change?
lightings?

pls adv. thks in advance!!

plan to keep this tank a low maint tank without CO2. CO2 can be added as the last resort as i have a 2 way splitter attached to my CO2 cylinder.

[budak]

With your tank and plant profile, stop Flourish altogether. Without CO2 and with your low-mid strength lighting, the extra nutrients are just fodder for the algae (given your somewhat heavy bioload, which should produce enough waste for the plants). Some Equilibrium to keep KH/GH at 4-5 would be good though.

Just stop Florish. And don't change water (except for topups with tap water) or dose anything for 3-4 weeks and see what happens. My bet is that the BBA will subside. I don't understand what you mean by "doubt it's the increased wattage causing the prob as i noticed the bba when the tank was better luminated" though.

[af2373]

think i didn't express myself too well. the tank has been doing "fine" with 2 x 15W FL since startup till now. i somehow added another tube of 15W FL to the tank late last week, and it was then that i noticed the bba. come to think of it....lights dun cause algae.....it's nutrient imbalance...heehee.

for a start, do i need to manually remove all the tiny bursts of bba or lt it subside by itself. and dun mind me asking this.

i admit i know nutz abt seachem Eq. do i dose it 2-3 times weekly like KNO3 or do i add it once a week/ fortnight/ mth? directions on the bottle says approx 1 tbsp for 80l will raise mineral content by 1 meq/l (3dh) for a new tank.

[budak]

If you are not using CO2, the extra light is just unused energy that the plants can't use... so algae gets a leg up. Suggest you don't worry about Equilibrium for now, and just stop the Florish and water changes and wait for a couple of weeks. I know BBA is torture for the brain, but try to think of other things in the meantime, e.g. how we can all wakeboard in the reservoirs now....

[af2373]

think of wakeboarding in reservoirs....tat's a good way to relieve my eyesore!

i'll try real hard not to examine the tank for 2-3 weeks.....not even when i top up water....tat's gonna be real tough.........sigh....

thks ya!

[Plantbrain]

Remove the light, stop doing water changes and fertilizing the tank.
Use fish load only and maybe some SC Eq, a little KNO3 etc if the tank has low bioload.

Add SAE's.
That should taske care of it along with some pruing.
You can also bleach/H2O2 spot clean BBA.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[stocker]

Alan,

Tom's advice sums it up. It worked for me.

[af2373]

thks daniel!

i need all the advice i can get....and all the luck too....as u know, non CO2 tanks gives me the sense of insecurity....dunno why....

[stocker]

Could be because results happen at a much slower rate...

[elmike]

[quote:8e4be3d327="Plantbrain"]Remove the light....[/quote:8e4be3d327]

How long should one deny light? Won't it also adversely affect the plants. Is there a window that would effectively kill BBA while not harming the plants? Appreciate if you could clarify.

[quote:8e4be3d327="Plantbrain"].....stop doing water changes....[/quote:8e4be3d327]

While I can understand the rationale of denying fertilisers and light in dealing with BBA, I don't quite get how not doing water changes ties in? I always thought being lax with water changes is one common cause of algae growth.

I'm trying to attune myself to the sight of BBA. My centrepiece bogwood is the hardest hit. The high points are completely colonised by BBA. The anubias leaves are also affected. While I could snip affected leaves off, there's little I can to the bogwood. Damn, it was only not too long ago that I took out that centrepiece and had a big pot of boiling water poured over it. I tell you, it was spick and span after that. Damn, it's come back with a vengeance. I'm just too lazy to do the same trick now. I'll wait till the looong school holidays.

I'm resigned to living with BBA at the moment. If only they are brighter green in colour, they would be quite mossy in appearance!

[budak]

i suspect he means removing the extra 15W that was recently added.

With non-CO2 setups (with moderate lighting, max 2 wpg), the tank works at a lower level of activity, you could say. It's a low energy system, where growth is not as fast (but can be just as luxuriant), and nutrients are mainly provided by fish poo. What is being suggested is really a variant of the Walstad model.

I am doing this for one of my tanks now... and haven't changed water or dosed for months.... i do use the filter output to create strong water surface agitation for gas exchange though.

[af2373]

[quote:859d81c655="budak"]I am doing this for one of my tanks now... and haven't changed water or dosed for months.... i do use the filter output to create strong water surface agitation for gas exchange though.[/quote:859d81c655]

i've clarified the lights wih tom. u r absolutely right!

strong water surface agitation for gas exchange. tat's something new! will shift by rainbar upwards. thks ya!

[barmby]

High fish load and No water change. We might be asking for trouble. Things may get really wrong.

[Plantbrain]

High fish load with a high plant load will help.

Inputs need to = the outputs.

This can take some experimentation, less feeding etc.
But the amount of fish can surprise you.
Remeber, no ferts excpt fish food.

The main thing is if there's enough plant growth to remove the NH4 produced.

Less light will help also.
The water change thing seems weird and counter intuitive at first, but it does work.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[af2373]

after almost 3 weeks of doing nothing to the tank. i can safely say that the bba has subsided or died down to the extent that my naked eyes cannot spot them anymore.

only actions taken were to manually remove those sightable bba and water top ups.

on another note, i've been using sera KH-GH pond for raising KH in my CO2 tank. lately i oso bought seachem equilibrium to try out in this tank. something dawned upon me lately as i was reading thru the EQ product specs.....are the 2 products (ie sera's KH-GH & seachem EQ) almost identical products? silly me...........

thks ya!