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Thread: plants losing their color

  1. #1
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    plants losing their color

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    Need some help here.

    My foreground and background plants are losing their colors and not growing..
    Foreground - mc

    Co2, with daily excel of 1ml
    Water cycle weekly, iron, trace, fertilizer , potassium , micro
    Light - 2 set of t series..

    Suppose to be a high tech tank but compare to my low tech, it actually flare poorly...

    Tentatively , any recommendations for red color plants that can be used in background.

    Easy to keep...
    Bean + Kurt

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    Re: plants losing their color

    Just some questions to help with possible solutions...

    1. What soil substrate are you using?
    2. What is the current bio-load and feeding amount/frequency?
    3. What are the nitrate levels?
    4. What are the exact fertilizer types/brands you are dosing?
    5. What are the background plants?
    6. What are the tank dimensions? Specifically the tank height?
    :: Urban Aquaria ::
    www.urbanaquaria.com

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    Re: plants losing their color

    1. What soil substrate are you using?
    Normal planted soil

    2. What is the current bio-load and feeding amount/frequency?
    Around 100 fauna, once a day

    3. What are the nitrate levels?
    Never tested, has purigen

    4. What are the exact fertilizer types/brands you are dosing?
    Ista attachment, seachem potassium, of fertilizer, micro lushgro

    5. What are the background plants?
    Ermm, don't know the name. Will try to post some pictures.. the forum attachment is too limited

    6. What are the tank dimensions? Specifically the tank height?[/QUOTE]
    50cm tank, 36 height and width
    Bean + Kurt

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    Re: plants losing their color

    Okay, without knowing the nutrient content level of the soil substrate/brand you are using, i can only make a guess that the soil nutrients could currently be exhausted, hence the rooted plants might be facing some nutrient shortages at the moment. If thats the case, inserting fertilizer root tabs/sticks into the soil may help to restore its nutrient content.

    Your tank's relatively high fish bio-load (and the amount of feeding required to maintain them) should be adding a good amount of ammonia/nitrates into the tank system. Though with the use of Purigen, its possible the majority of organic compounds and waste may also be absorbed by it too (especially when the Purigen is new, as it has very high absorption capacity), hence the remaining nutrients could end up insufficient for the plants to use.

    Its always a balancing act between too much excess nutrients vs too little nutrients, so you have to observe the plant condition and adjust the dosages of fertilizers accordingly.

    Check out this plant nutrient deficiency chart for some reference: http://infographics.myaquacalc.com/w...y-labeled2.jpg

    Since you already have Co2 injection in the tank (and assuming the Co2 is maintained at optimal 30ppm+ levels), your other plant growth limitations will be nutrients and lights. You can adjust it step by step.

    As the fertilizers you are currently using seem to be mainly micro/trace and potassium, without much nitrogen and phosphates. Consider dosing nitrogen and phosphates to see if it helps the plant growth and condition over a period of 1-2 weeks.

    If even with improved fertilizer dosing the plant growth is somehow still slow with poor coloration, then the next step is to look into increasing the light intensity.
    :: Urban Aquaria ::
    www.urbanaquaria.com

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    Re: plants losing their color

    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Aquaria View Post
    Okay, without knowing the nutrient content level of the soil substrate/brand you are using, i can only make a guess that the soil nutrients could currently be exhausted, hence the rooted plants might be facing some nutrient shortages at the moment. If thats the case, inserting fertilizer root tabs/sticks into the soil may help to restore its nutrient content.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Aquaria View Post

    Your tank's relatively high fish bio-load (and the amount of feeding required to maintain them) should be adding a good amount of ammonia/nitrates into the tank system. Though with the use of Purigen, its possible the majority of organic compounds and waste may also be absorbed by it too (especially when the Purigen is new, as it has very high absorption capacity), hence the remaining nutrients could end up insufficient for the plants to use.

    Its always a balancing act between too much excess nutrients vs too little nutrients, so you have to observe the plant condition and adjust the dosages of fertilizers accordingly.

    Check out this plant nutrient deficiency chart for some reference: http://infographics.myaquacalc.com/w...y-labeled2.jpg

    Since you already have Co2 injection in the tank (and assuming the Co2 is maintained at optimal 30ppm+ levels), your other plant growth limitations will be nutrients and lights. You can adjust it step by step.

    As the fertilizers you are currently using seem to be mainly micro/trace and potassium, without much nitrogen and phosphates. Consider dosing nitrogen and phosphates to see if it helps the plant growth and condition over a period of 1-2 weeks.

    If even with improved fertilizer dosing the plant growth is somehow still slow with poor coloration, then the next step is to look into increasing the light intensity.




    what fertilizier tab do you suggest?
    i know JBL (you seem to be a fan of theirs) & root master, I hope to get a comprehensive tab.

    is there anything in the market that offer NPK at a go?
    i'm kinda sick of collecting bottles.. difficult to sell too..

    light intensity again.. well, i saw Z series in seaview.. maybe i will be poisoned again
    Bean + Kurt

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    Re: plants losing their color

    UA,

    i don't understand,

    i dose potassium, i also have seachem phosphorus. Should i dose that?
    as for nitrogen, the fauna should have provide that.

    correct me if i'm wrong.
    Bean + Kurt

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    Re: plants losing their color

    Quote Originally Posted by kurty View Post
    what fertilizier tab do you suggest?
    i know JBL (you seem to be a fan of theirs) & root master, I hope to get a comprehensive tab.
    I also went through a "root tab" stage and bought various ones to test... so far i have tried Seachem Flourish Tabs, JBL Kugeln Balls and ADA Multi Bottom. All of them work similarly by providing a time-released comprehensive range of nutrients directly to the plant's roots, but note that they don't contain nitrate (N) or phosphate (P).


    Quote Originally Posted by kurty View Post
    is there anything in the market that offer NPK at a go?
    i'm kinda sick of collecting bottles.. difficult to sell too..
    Yeah, i used to buy many different bottles of separate fertilizers to mix and match, all the different alphabets, like chemistry set. End up my tank cabinets stuffed full of bottles too, i know the feeling.

    I switched to using all-in-one fertilizers, and eventually settled on the Tropical brand ones. There is the Tropica Premium (all nutrients but no N & P) and Tropica Specialized (all nutrients including N & P), i use both versions. I usually dose the Premium version duing initial tank start up and when the plants are growing out (during that time there is ample N & P from the ADA aquasoil substrate and livestock)... when the plants grow out and i notice the N & P levels in the tank are becoming insufficient (either growth slow down or poor leaf condition), then i switch over to dose Tropica Specialized and the plants perk up again. I basically rotate between the 2 versions based on plant requirements.


    Quote Originally Posted by kurty View Post
    UA,

    i don't understand,

    i dose potassium, i also have seachem phosphorus. Should i dose that?
    as for nitrogen, the fauna should have provide that.

    correct me if i'm wrong.
    Yes, you can dose Seachem Phosphorus and see if it helps, but do be careful not to dose too much as it may create imbalance and encourage algae issues to pop up. Test kits for measuring phosphate levels would make dosing the ideal amount easier... otherwise you'll just have to try and see, then adjust accordingly based on trial and error.

    Although the fauna waste and food should provide the nitrogen content, remember that you have Purigen in the filter, that absorbs the organic compounds and waste before they can even be converted into nitrates/phosphates. Hence if you are relying on the fauna to produce nitrate/phosphate (while at the same time the Purigen is actively removing them), that could cause a shortage in those nutrients.

    I mentioned in other threads that Purigen can be used in planted tanks as it has minimal effect on fertilizers, so both macro and micro fertilizers can be dosed without issues, that refers to high-tech tanks that dose a range of fertilizers including N & P to maintain plant growth (like with EI dosing)... but i also mentioned that due to Purigen's effects, it can cause nutrient deficiencies in tanks which rely solely on fish waste and food (aka organic methods) to generate the nitrates/phosphates for the plants, as those may be absorbed before the plants can use them.

    So the solution could be either remove the Purigen and allow the fish waste and food to generate nitrates/phosphates naturally for the plants use... or keep Purigen in the filter and dose nitrates/phosphates as fertilizers separately.
    Last edited by Urban Aquaria; 20th Oct 2014 at 12:20.
    :: Urban Aquaria ::
    www.urbanaquaria.com

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    Re: plants losing their color

    ok, thank you UA.

    these are the pictures of the mc and background plants.

    Attachment 44554Attachment 44555
    Bean + Kurt

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    Re: plants losing their color

    Is monte carlo supposed to be that dark?? May be the lighting/camera adjustments though.
    The 2nd picture might be limnophila hippuroides/aromatica from the looks of the colour of the underside of the leaves
    -=I work in the dark to serve the light=-

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    Re: plants losing their color

    well, they are still losing their colors and fading away..

    i really clueless..

    i dose fertilizer, potassium and etc every 2 days. 1ml on this 50cm tank
    root tabs, root monster etc, you name it. i probably done it
    co2 and upgrade the lighting to evo18...

    still no sign of recovery...

    very dishearten..

    can anyone located in punggol, help me out??
    Bean + Kurt

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    Re: plants losing their color

    Quote Originally Posted by kurty View Post
    well, they are still losing their colors and fading away..

    i really clueless..

    i dose fertilizer, potassium and etc every 2 days. 1ml on this 50cm tank
    root tabs, root monster etc, you name it. i probably done it
    co2 and upgrade the lighting to evo18...

    still no sign of recovery...

    very dishearten..

    can anyone located in punggol, help me out??

    do you have a CO2 drop checker?
    It will be a good indication if there is enough Co2 for plants to grow.

  12. #12
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    Re: plants losing their color

    Quote Originally Posted by kurty View Post
    well, they are still losing their colors and fading away..

    i really clueless..

    i dose fertilizer, potassium and etc every 2 days. 1ml on this 50cm tank
    root tabs, root monster etc, you name it. i probably done it
    co2 and upgrade the lighting to evo18...

    still no sign of recovery...

    very dishearten..

    can anyone located in punggol, help me out??
    Have you managed to remove the purigen or dose additional nitrogen/phosphorus, see if it helps boost the plant growth?

    Btw, were the plants recently planted, like perhaps just 1-2 weeks ago? If so, then it might also be due to them just adapting to the new tank conditions, especially for the small carpet plants, they usually don't seem to do much for the first week or so (mainly establishing roots first), and the older emersed leaves will usually melt away too... once it transitions, new submersed leaves then will start to grow out and form a carpet.

    Like strat mentioned, you'll need to use a drop checker to monitor the Co2 levels in your tank, it might also be possible that the amount of Co2 injected may still be too low, hence may not be generating as much benefits to the plant growth.
    :: Urban Aquaria ::
    www.urbanaquaria.com

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    Re: plants losing their color

    Quote Originally Posted by strat View Post
    do you have a CO2 drop checker?
    It will be a good indication if there is enough Co2 for plants to grow.
    nope.. ok, i will get one then..
    Bean + Kurt

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    Re: plants losing their color

    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Aquaria View Post
    Have you managed to remove the purigen or dose additional nitrogen/phosphorus, see if it helps boost the plant growth?

    Btw, were the plants recently planted, like perhaps just 1-2 weeks ago? If so, then it might also be due to them just adapting to the new tank conditions, especially for the small carpet plants, they usually don't seem to do much for the first week or so (mainly establishing roots first), and the older emersed leaves will usually melt away too... once it transitions, new submersed leaves then will start to grow out and form a carpet.

    Like strat mentioned, you'll need to use a drop checker to monitor the Co2 levels in your tank, it might also be possible that the amount of Co2 injected may still be too low, hence may not be generating as much benefits to the plant growth.
    pardon me... my purigen still in the filter, as i don't understand why those people who used purigen, had success..
    only me, fails badly..
    tonight, i will remove them..

    the plants have been around 2-3weeks if i can still recall..

    ok, co2 checker.. seaview again then.. basically, i spending every weekend at seaview..
    Bean + Kurt

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    Re: plants losing their color

    Quote Originally Posted by kurty View Post

    ok, co2 checker.. seaview again then.. basically, i spending every weekend at seaview..
    you will need the Co2 indicator solution for the drop checker as well...
    seaview will have this:
    http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...cator-Solution

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    Re: plants losing their color

    Quote Originally Posted by strat View Post
    you will need the Co2 indicator solution for the drop checker as well...
    seaview will have this:
    http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...cator-Solution
    ok, this kind of stuff dont come as a set?

    a question: after i drop the indicator in the reservoir, where do i place it?
    on top of the diffuser or the other end of the tank?

    my tank is 50cm,
    diffuser is at the left side of the tank.
    just to make sure i using it correctly..
    Bean + Kurt

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    Re: plants losing their color

    Quote Originally Posted by kurty View Post
    pardon me... my purigen still in the filter, as i don't understand why those people who used purigen, had success..
    only me, fails badly..
    tonight, i will remove them..
    Usually those who have planted tanks and use Purigen in their filters successfully either have alot more bio-load or very seasoned filters with lots of mulm or active soil substrate that release alot more organic compounds/nutrients (even more than what the purigen can absorb), or use less purigen vs water volume so the absorption capacity is lower, or they already dose ample amounts of nitrogen and phosphate fertilizers regularly (ie. EI dosing) so they don't rely on livestock to supply those macro nutrients.

    Quote Originally Posted by kurty View Post
    ok, co2 checker.. seaview again then.. basically, i spending every weekend at seaview..
    Don't worry... even when tanks are stable we'll all still be visiting LFS on weekends, there is always something new to shop for, its never ending.


    Quote Originally Posted by kurty View Post
    ok, this kind of stuff dont come as a set?
    Well, most of the Co2 drop checkers usually come packaged with indicator solutions that require you to mix with aquarium water (which is the incorrect method, you have to use 4dKH water), so you'll have to separately buy or make your own 4dKH water, its abit of a hassle.

    However, there are brands like Ocean Free or ISTA which have drop checkers which are already packaged with pre-mixed indicator solutions, so those are much easier to use... here is a photo example of what i'm referring to:




    Quote Originally Posted by kurty View Post
    a question: after i drop the indicator in the reservoir, where do i place it?
    on top of the diffuser or the other end of the tank?

    my tank is 50cm,
    diffuser is at the left side of the tank.
    just to make sure i using it correctly..
    For short-term testing purposes, you can put the drop checker at different areas of your tank, preferably near to the plants, and observe which areas get more Co2 and which areas gets less.

    But for long-term monitoring, the drop check should be placed at an area where Co2 bubbles wouldn't flow into it, i usually place mine under or behind the outflow where the circulation is usually the lowest... so that if it shows optimal Co2 levels, most likely the rest of the areas with better circulation should also have sufficient Co2.

    Try to avoid placing the drop checker where Co2 bubbles are blowing directly into it (ie. above the diffuser or in the path of the flow), as that can often generate higher than usual false readings due to the pure Co2 bubbles floating into the drop checker.
    Last edited by Urban Aquaria; 24th Oct 2014 at 16:11.
    :: Urban Aquaria ::
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    Re: plants losing their color

    thanks UA, really look up to you, shadow and others.

    you guys had great success in planted.

    my wife will used to accompany to seaview and now, it's on my own....
    yeah, i did read one of your threads on the co2 checker, i will be getting OF or ISTA which ever is cheaper..

    lately i have this thought whereby i sell 1 of my tanks and go for a 2ft set up.
    using ada soil, DSM and plant glosso as i wanted it to be a low tech tank.
    filled it with nice rocks.
    it's not about keeping fauna anymore, it's all about the satisfaction from building a tank from scratch.
    although i have yet to taste success...

    patience, monies, experience are keys to this hobby..
    Bean + Kurt

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    Re: plants losing their color

    Upgrading to a 2ft tank would be a very good idea... the larger tank volume means you'll have more space to work with and its still relatively easy to maintain.

    If you setup a new tank with ADA Amazonia aquasoil, it will definitely increase the success of growing plants in that tank. Add in Co2 injection and you'll have the best combination.

    Not sure what kind of magical ingredients ADA puts into their soil, but somehow i was never successful in my planted tanks until i used ADA aquasoil.
    :: Urban Aquaria ::
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