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Thread: tank out in the sun.

  1. #1
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    tank out in the sun.

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    hi guys, need some advice before i buy the plants.
    okay, bascially i've planned to have my 3ft planted out in the sun. i planned to have some big leaves plants to block off some of the sunlight.
    the question is can i do without C02 for the tank and by making it densely planted to curb the problem of green water and algae?

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    Sun-exposed tank

    I have several tanks that are exposed to either the morning or evening sun, and ALL are "infected" with algae. If you can control algae just by using large/dense plants, I am very sure many others will be keen to learn from your experience.

    In any case, not all algae is bad, although most types make the tank look ugly and untidy. In fact, I have seen one LFS purposely and effectively cultivate "common" algae as decoration in conjunction with plants. *sigh* I have never been able to achieve the same effect. Nevertheless, algae (particularly film algae and green water algae) make excellent food for young fries.

    One of the worst algae to get that is near to impossible to eradicate is the hair algae, of which the most infamous is the BBA (Black Beard Algae). Very few fishes will eat BBA. Anyway, all types of hair will get entangle to virtually everything in the tank --plants, decoration, sand, glass....-- even algae-resistant plants such as hornworts! The only solution appears to be to throw away all plants and water, thoroughly clean and sterilise the tank, decorations, sand and other static objects. Fortunately fishes are spared from algae "infection".

    Summary:

    Direct sun => guaranteed algae, unless you are using UV light to kill the algae spores.

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    Re: Sun-exposed tank

    If direct sun inevitably in algae, how does one explain clear waters in natural sunlit pools with lush macrophyte growth? Tranquilizer, go ahead with the large leafed plants (the echinos will likely produce emergent leaves to provide some shade), and plant heavily with whatever other species you like. You could try the Walstad approach of having a rich base, no liquid fert and minimal water changes (just top-up).

    gks, you are right in that BBA is a tough critter, but it's been proven (in several discussions here) that sustained, high CO2 levels will deter or eliminate it. There's no need to strip infected tanks.

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    hey budak...just one question.... doesn't natural sunlit pools have no co2 injection?? so i presume that prevention of bba is possible even without co2 injection....

    i was wondering if sunlight = strong lighting; + co2 injection = algae growth when not dosing....if our tanks are in sunlight should we avoid co2 injection instead??

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    Re:

    BBA is only an issue in tanks which have CO2 injection, at levels too low for optimum plant growth (but sufficient for the algae). That's why we recommend at least 25-30 mg/l of CO2. For non-CO2 tanks, it's not an issue. There was this forum member who posted recently picture of his little outdoor pool, filled with lush plants growing under natural light. No CO2 injection. Somehow, when you grow plants outdoors (and especially with a rich substrate), artificial Co2 injection becomes a non-issue, though I suspect it's usually because of the sheer surface volume of the pool/tank. Just look at the plants growing in the concrete vats at Teo's farm.

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    okay...so just to get a few things clear...since i'm confused again...lol :P

    why is Co2 not an issue when making a low maintenance tank?? if bba grows at low (not optimum for plants) levels...then by not injecting co2 into low maint. tanks...aren't we making the co2...insufficient (since plants are emitting co2 at night)?? so that should equal bba growth...no?

    if we inject co2....then with both co2 and high lighting from the sun...then the requirements of the plants will go up no?? since conditions are really good for growth...in this case wouldn't the "nutrients" in the water be zapped up by the plants? and hence increase chances for algae growth?

    Thanks.

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    CO2 enriched and a non-CO2 enriched system work differently.

    When you pump in CO2, you are going to benefit both plant and algae. Both plants and algae thrive on CO2 rich water. Since plant would require more CO2 than algae, you got to maintain it at a high enough level to benefit the plants. Therefore, if you intend to use CO2, make sure that you put in enough. Too low CO2 help the algae but not enough for the plants. Next, you need to provide the plant with a healthy dose of nutrients so that the plants maintains the edge over algae. Good level of NO3, K, PO4, Mg, Ca and traces gives you healthy plants that prevents algae outbreak. (How the plants do it? Well... ppl are still debating over it. But it works!) In CO2-enriched tank, you would also want to keep NH3 down, since this helps the algae. Therefore, you want to keep bioload lower. You are also adding quite a fair bit of chemicals into the tank, you would want to change water more frequently to prevent built up or depletion.

    It is a totally different story if you do not inject CO2. Plants will still need CO2. Plants gets their CO2 from respiration and decomposition. Therefore in a non-CO2 tank, a rich substrate with organic matter is needed. The organic matter will be decomposed by the bacteria in the soil (oftenly used in a non-CO2 tank) and gives up CO2. You feed liberally for this type of tank. Fish food consumed by the fishes will be turned into waste and converted into nutrients and CO2 as they decomposed. Normal water in equilibrium with atmosphere contains only 0.5ppm of CO2 or less. You would want to limit surface agitation for this type of setup too. You want to keep as much CO2 generated in the water. Depending of setup, you might get up to 5ppm of CO2. In Diana Walstad's method, you also keep the filteration to purely mechanical with little biological filtering. The idea is the keep the N as NH3 rather than NO3. Plants spend less energy uptaking NH3 than NO3. In this setup, you do not add fertilisers. You keep the nutrients away from the water column. The substrate should supply most of the nutrients. You also do not change water frequently. Once every few months more than suffice.

    This is what I learnt. Please correct me if there is anything incorrect.

    BC

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    Thanks BC!! now to prep my 3feet non co2 tank!!

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    Hi,

    Am helping my dad redo his "outdoor" 3ft tank, located in the porch for fengshui purposes.

    Though sheltered, it does recieve direct sun during certain periods of the day. So he's tank does experience extreme green water also. Sometimes can't even see the fish man.

    So got him an external filter & laid a proper base.
    Now, what kind of plants should I get for him to plant?
    Would love some help with recommendations.
    tranquillizer: so how's your tank? care to share what plants are working for you?

    Also does it mean, that since its outdoors, we do not need to have switch on the lights 10hr/day like indoor tanks?

    thanks

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    Re:

    [quote:a00ae4f3bf="Giant"]Hi,

    Am helping my dad redo his "outdoor" 3ft tank, located in the porch for fengshui purposes.

    Though sheltered, it does recieve direct sun during certain periods of the day. So he's tank does experience extreme green water also. Sometimes can't even see the fish man.

    So got him an external filter & laid a proper base.
    Now, what kind of plants should I get for him to plant?
    Would love some help with recommendations.[/quote:a00ae4f3bf]
    What substrate have you laid in the tank? Will you be using CO2 in this tanK?

    Floating plants are highly recommended to shade off excessive light. Salvinia sp. and Limnobium laevigatum(frogbit) are some examples. You may also have a Nymphea lotus to help you shade some excessive light.

    Hygrophila corymbosa "compact" is one of my favorite plants that might suit your setup. It grows well in both CO2 or non-CO2 tanks.
    [quote:a00ae4f3bf="Giant"]Also does it mean, that since its outdoors, we do not need to have switch on the lights 10hr/day like indoor tanks?[/quote:a00ae4f3bf]
    If you are receiving enough natural sunlight, you can opt to switch off the lights for that period of the day.

    BC

  11. #11
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    Using gravel, over mixture of gravel & base fert.
    Don't intent to use CO2 for tank.

    Thanks for your recommendations bc, will keep a look out for those when we go shop for plants.

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    sorry, will like to take this discussion a bit further;

    anybody try to put a moss tank out in the sun? with sufficient "sun shade" I presume; any difference in steps from wat have been discussed?

    tango
    Adopt all unwanted neon & cardinal tetra

  13. #13
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    BTW, do you know where I can get some Hygrophila corymbosa "compact" besides going all the way to Teo's?

    I have seen some moss growing really really well at one of the members pond. we couldn't figure out what type of moss it was, but it did look a lot like X'mas moss.
    The water was rather clear too.
    But not sure if outdoor tank conditions = pond conditions.

  14. #14
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    Went to Teo's over the weekend to get the plants.
    He also recommended some "no need CO2" plants to go along.

    Will see how it works & update.

    But I noticed the temperature is kinda of high for outdoor tanks.
    My dad's one is hitting 30 degrees C.

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    Re:

    [quote:8e70ffd93d="Giant"]Went to Teo's over the weekend to get the plants.
    He also recommended some "no need CO2" plants to go along.

    Will see how it works & update.

    But I noticed the temperature is kinda of high for outdoor tanks.
    My dad's one is hitting 30 degrees C.[/quote:8e70ffd93d]

    High temperature might pose problems to low-light/non-CO2 tank. You might want to find ways to shade the tank.

    If you are seeing plants melting away relatively fast, it might be the temperature.

    BC

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    Re:

    [quote:e147e924="tango"]sorry, will like to take this discussion a bit further;

    anybody try to put a moss tank out in the sun? with sufficient "sun shade" I presume; any difference in steps from wat have been discussed?

    tango[/quote:e147e924]

    If you are able to keep temperature down, moss should be a good addition.

    BC

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    Hi folks

    I would like to share another post from an aquarist from Spain that have setup a tank under direct sunlight

    http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...ead.php?t=5018

    Very nice one indeed!

    Livio

  18. #18
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    Yes very nice.
    Plus, there are no need for lights too!!

    But for country like Singapore, hard to get 25/26ºC (day), that's why we all live in air-con comfort.

    Update on my dad's newly set tank, which is outdoors, but shaded, still temp reaching 30ºC & over.
    Dared not plant too much, as this is 1st time trying an outdoor tank.
    Some of the stem plants leaves are melting away.
    But the grass (runners) seem to be taking root & multiplying.

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    Re:

    [quote:6c0c6dac21="Giant"]
    Update on my dad's newly set tank, which is outdoors, but shaded, still temp reaching 30ºC & over.
    Dared not plant too much, as this is 1st time trying an outdoor tank.
    Some of the stem plants leaves are melting away.
    But the grass (runners) seem to be taking root & multiplying.[/quote:6c0c6dac21]My tank is also currently running about 30degC, non CO2. I plant densely with slow growing plants like Christmas moss, ferns, crypts, anubias, etc. The sunlight hit the tank every afternoon for several hrs, but I don't have problem with melting leaves. Just that I need to clean the glass after some months, for clearer vision.

    Perhaps you may plant densely to ecologically balance up your tank. Feed the fish more generously, but not in excess. Your feeding will give good nutrients for the plants.

    IMO, I prefer shaded lights from sun or without, rather than direct. It's easier to control. If sunlight can not be avoided, I would prefer to set up ponds with mixture of tropical ferns, floating or terrarium plants.

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    BTW, what fish do you put in your tank?

    My tetras seem to be dying off slowly, but steadily 1 after the other.
    Though the Malayan Shrimps are having a hell of the time feeding off the dead fish. Man its like an all you can eat when they gather round the carcasses.

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