BBA issue

[wssay]

My tank is being infested by bba for almost 2 months. Since the breakout is not so serious, manage to keep the situation under control by changing water every week. Only the tennulus are affected by bba and some bba grow on the glass surface. Thinking of getting a uv lamp to eliminate the bba. Will a planted tank become algae free after the installation of UV lamp? Pls advice. Thanks.

[budak]

before you buy a UV, do a search on 'bba' and you will find past threads dealing with this issue.

[joe]

UV will not kill BBA ... in generally, get your CO2 to the optimum range (+-30ppm) and BBA should stop growing ... trim the rest off and check ur fertilisation regime to ensure your other plants grow well

[tcy81]

if the plants in my tank, bubbling with oxygen. does thats mean my co2 level is ok?

[nicholas88]

[quote:6343acb7="tcy81"]if the plants in my tank, bubbling with oxygen. does thats mean my co2 level is ok?[/quote:6343acb7]

There are lots of factor to make your plants bubbling. So plants bubbling doesn't means your Co2 reach to 30ppm. Use Co2 test Kit or Check your PH & KH to find out how many ppm do you have.

[David]

UV lamp will do ZIP for you for BBA...You need to clip off badly infected leaves, remove gravel that has BBA growing on, increase your yamatoes shrimps to get rid of rotting stuff accumulated at the bottom of your tank.

[Plantbrain]

Three things:
CO2 CO2 and CO2.

It should stop growing if you add enough CO2.
Then you can beat any algae if it stops growing, trim, prune etc.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[neon]

[quote:3b17af="Plantbrain"]Three things:
CO2 CO2 and CO2.

It should stop growing if you add enough CO2.
Then you can beat any algae if it stops growing, trim, prune etc.

Regards,
Tom Barr[/quote:3b17af]
Tom:

I still have the BBA issue and on top of that , unknown substance (diatom or some sort) shows up on the gravel and on the leaves. I am doing some H2O2 with sryinge before water change to kill the BBA on DW and gravel, around 30ml used for my 6' tank.

From yours as well as Peter Gwee's suggestion to increase CO2, and I did. Increase the CO2 level to as high as 60-70ppm. As someone else highlighted, the high CO2 level need more dosage. Right now , below are the current/today tank parameter .

Tank Dimensions (LxWxH): 6' x 2' x 2'
Lighting Intensity(No of Watts) : 2 x 150W
Type of Lighting (FL/PL/MH) : MH
No. of Hours your light is on: 10
CO2 Injection Rate (bps) : countless
Type of CO2 (DIY/Liquid/Tank) : Pressurized Tank with Solenoid Valve
Method of Injection (e.g. Diffusor/Reactor): External Reactor (fr NA)
Substrate Used : Lapis Sand
How Thick is your base fert : 2” (lapis mix with 4 bags of JBL Base Fert)
How thick is your gravel : 2” top + 2" bottom mix with base fert
Liquid Fertilizers Used :
Dr Mallick’s :
a) KNO3 (Pre-mix : 10 tbsp in 1000ml of water)
b) KH2PO4 (Pre-mix : 10 tbsp in 1000ml of water)
c) K2SO4 (Pre-mix : 10 tbsp in 1000ml of water)
d) MgSO4 (Pre-mix : 10 tbsp in 1000ml of water)
e) Rexon (Pre-mix : 1 package in 1000ml of water)

Frequency of fertilization :
a) KNO3, 50ml (10ppm) of pre-mix solution, 2 times a week (reduced from 3 times)
b) KH2PO4, 11ml ( 1ppm) of pre-mix solution, 2 times a week (reduced from 3 times)
c) K2SO4, 45ml ( 7ppm) of pre-mix solution, 2 times a week (reduced from 3 times)
d) MgSO4, 60ml (3.5ppm) of pre-mix solution, 2 times a week (reduced from 3 times)
e) Rexon, 15ml (0.25ppm) of pre-mix solution, 2 times a week (reduced from 3 times)
f) coral sand inside carnister

Tank Temperature : 25-26 ?C (chiller)
Type of Filter (overhead/internal/canister) : Eheim External Canister 2260 (change with 1262 pump , flowrate 3400/L)
Filter media used : 10 kg of biohome , biohome plus, bioballs, sponge
How long has your tank been set up : 12 months
Water change frequency :
a) used to be once a week, 50% . Dose with Aquaplus Nutrifin anti-chlorine 20 squeeze.
b) due to BBA, trim many leaves with BBA, sucked gravel with BBA into a big container with filter wool, and pump back water to tank. After that do 20% water change, twice a week. Dose with Aquaplus Nutrifin 10 squeeze.

Water surface movement : visible water movement on top due to power head inside to push more movement /circulation.
Circulation : The water from my external reactor is released to my tank with 2 rainbars outlet at the bottom of the tank . This setup was suggested by Peter (previously was using lily pipe shape , with another powerhead 600l/h for mid level circulation).

Chemical Properties (Fill what you can)
---------------------------------------

Carbonate Hardness (kh): 3, tested with JBL test kit. (previously 7 dKH)
Total Hardness (gH):
PH : Test with Hanna Test Pen
CO2 injection 2 hrs before lighting
Before lights on – 6.5
1 hr after lights on – 6.4
2 hr after lights on – 6.4
3 hr after lights on – 6.3
8 hr after lights on – 6.2
NH4 (ppm):
NO2 (ppm):
NO3 (ppm): show 30-40ppm if using Sera test kit
PO4 (ppm):
Fe (ppm):

Bioload (Your Fish and Plants)
------------------------------
Plants :
, Xiao Gu Jing, Balansae, lots of Crypts,lot of Java fern and Java fern windelov on driftwood, Vallisneria Americana, Echi Oriental, xmas moss wall


Critters :
Cardinal – 70+
Oto – 4
Yamato – 2
Cherry Shrimps – 30+
rasbora - 6
bleeding heart - 5
rummy nose - 20 +
diamond tetra - 1
dwarf cory - 1
pencil fish - 3
coral red pencil - 1


Some of the pictures :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...e/DSC00314.jpg

[barmby]

[quote:30cb20b5b9="neon"]Bioload (Your Fish and Plants)
------------------------------
Plants :
, Xiao Gu Jing, Balansae, lots of Crypts,lot of Java fern and Java fern windelov on driftwood, Vallisneria Americana, Echi Oriental, xmas moss wall

[/quote:30cb20b5b9]

A tank with plants that are difficult to grow is bound to have algae. Hence, try to add more stem plants. Stem plants are nutrients sponge. 10 hours of lumination per day is not helping as most of your plant might have stop photosynthesis after 6 hours of luminiation or so. Those extra hours might be contributing to the BBA grown.

BBA is either CO2 (too little) or NO3 (too much or too litte).

If you believe you have these two elements in good range. Then it is the lack of uptake by plants. For this reason, algae are feasting.

More plants and healthy plants = less algae.

ps: Don't give up!

[PeterGwee]

[quote:65116d8eca="Colin"]A tank with plants that are difficult to grow is bound to have algae. Hence, try to add more stem plants. Stem plants are nutrients sponge. 10 hours of lumination per day is not helping as most of your plant might have stop photosynthesis after 6 hours of luminiation or so. Those extra hours might be contributing to the BBA grown. [/quote:65116d8eca]

Where did you get this notion from? Neon's issue seems to be coming from a poor CO2 setup ime. It takes 8 hrs for his CO2 to reach equilibrium which is a tad way too long. Most tanks with high flow through their reactors and good in tank mixing will hit that mark within and hour or so. His tank which is big needs quite a bit of work on the reactor side and in tank mixing imo. Keeping the CO2 stable at 30ppm (at least...do account for equipment errors..always error on the higher side of things) will stop BBA from growing.

[quote:65116d8eca="Colin"]BBA is either CO2 (too little) or NO3 (too much or too litte).[/quote:65116d8eca]

Too little NO3 perharps....you stunt the plants, you give algae a good substrate (leaves) to grow on.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[neon]

[quote:4d74ff1f27="PeterGwee"]
Where did you get this notion from? Neon's issue seems to be coming from a poor CO2 setup ime. It takes 8 hrs for his CO2 to reach equilibrium which is a tad way too long. Most tanks with high flow through their reactors and good in tank mixing will hit that mark within and hour or so. His tank which is big needs quite a bit of work on the reactor side and in tank mixing imo. Keeping the CO2 stable at 30ppm (at least...do account for equipment errors..always error on the higher side of things) will stop BBA from growing.
[/quote:4d74ff1f27]

Peter, how did you estimate my tank required 6 hrs to reach co2 equilabrium ?

[quote:4d74ff1f27="PeterGwee"]Too little NO3 perharps....you stunt the plants, you give algae a good substrate (leaves) to grow on.[/quote:4d74ff1f27]

I have reduced from 3 x times dosing to 2 times per week for NO3,PO4,Mg,K and Fe (seachem 20ml ) . Each nutrient dosage ppm are the same as the tank parameter indicated earlier. Do you still think my NO3 is still low (10ppm x twice weekly) ? Don't have many high NO3 in take plant (if you notice my plants list earlier) , NO3 should be more than sufficient , isn't it ?

I can see plants are bubbling after 2 hrs after changed to 2 rain bars as suggested . Carnister --> CO2 reactor --> left and right rainbars. The BBA still coming back on the driftwood, lesser on the plants. The brown film like substance still keep coming back on gravel. Have to suck up every 3 days. Sigh !! Could the brown film substance on the gravel resulted from the H2O2 bombing or from the suck out of gravel and exposed substrate (I am extremely careful not to suck out too many gravel). It does not look like Diatom as seen on glass. Also, what to do on the BBA on the driftwood ? Right now, I stop H2O2 bombing with sringe, and use a hardbrush to brush the dw, with the close suction of water out of the tank to a container with heavily filtered (wool) and bottom contains a powerful pump to pump back the water back to the tank. This way I can do a lot of maintenance, like suck out the cut out BBA infected leaves, BBA gravel, the brown film substance. Subsequently the filtered water pumps back at the same time.

Any suggestion to improve the situation ?? Thanks in advance.

Cheers

[PeterGwee]

[quote:aa3799e1="Colin"]Peter, how did you estimate my tank required 6 hrs to reach co2 equilabrium ? [/quote:aa3799e1]

From your test results..Unless the pH of 6.2 is not your lowest point that the tank water would go for the period of injection. I have play with reactors and tank mixing quite a bit recently and have seen patterns emerged. I can tell from experience that your rate of CO2 is excessive (6.2 with a KH of 3...) and all that is needed is either more flow to the reactor(more flow more mixing...your reactor chamber limit seems to have been exceeded with burping of bubbles though.) and in tank mixing (you lost this by supplying the flow to the reactor instead).


[quote:aa3799e1="Colin"]I have reduced from 3 x times dosing to 2 times per week for NO3,PO4,Mg,K and Fe (seachem 20ml ) . Each nutrient dosage ppm are the same as the tank parameter indicated earlier. Do you still think my NO3 is still low (10ppm x twice weekly) ? Don't have many high NO3 in take plant (if you notice my plants list earlier) , NO3 should be more than sufficient , isn't it ?

I can see plants are bubbling after 2 hrs after changed to 2 rain bars as suggested . Carnister --> CO2 reactor --> left and right rainbars. The BBA still coming back on the driftwood, lesser on the plants. The brown film like substance still keep coming back on gravel. Have to suck up every 3 days. Sigh !! Could the brown film substance on the gravel resulted from the H2O2 bombing or from the suck out of gravel and exposed substrate (I am extremely careful not to suck out too many gravel). It does not look like Diatom as seen on glass. Also, what to do on the BBA on the driftwood ? Right now, I stop H2O2 bombing with sringe, and use a hardbrush to brush the dw, with the close suction of water out of the tank to a container with heavily filtered (wool) and bottom contains a powerful pump to pump back the water back to the tank. This way I can do a lot of maintenance, like suck out the cut out BBA infected leaves, BBA gravel, the brown film substance. Subsequently the filtered water pumps back at the same time.

Any suggestion to improve the situation ?? Thanks in advance.[/quote:aa3799e1]

The nutrients are fine for your tank. Check the pH of the tank water at different locations of your tank at different points of the day. Do you get variations? Prune and remove all the algae in the tank, clean the filter followed by a large 70% water change to reset the tank again. Keep attacking the algae often...maybe 2x a week routine till the tank evens out. Try to get a powerhead to drive the reactor instead of your filter.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[neon]

[quote:9d0216d471="PeterGwee"]
From your test results..Unless the pH of 6.2 is not your lowest point that the tank water would go for the period of injection. I have play with reactors and tank mixing quite a bit recently and have seen patterns emerged. I can tell from experience that your rate of CO2 is excessive (6.2 with a KH of 3...) and all that is needed is either more flow to the reactor(more flow more mixing...your reactor chamber limit seems to have been exceeded with burping of bubbles though.) and in tank mixing (you lost this by supplying the flow to the reactor instead).

The nutrients are fine for your tank. Check the pH of the tank water at different locations of your tank at different points of the day. Do you get variations? Prune and remove all the algae in the tank, clean the filter followed by a large 70% water change to reset the tank again. Keep attacking the algae often...maybe 2x a week routine till the tank evens out. Try to get a powerhead to drive the reactor instead of your filter.
[/quote:9d0216d471]

Measurement for the tank (last night and this morning) :

When PH KH CO2 (Calculated)
----------------------- ----- ----- ---------------------
just after light off 6.2 3 56 ppm

8 hrs after light off 6.2 3 56 ppm

12 hrs after light off 6.2 3 56 ppm
& before CO2 injection

Every time the PH measurement are sample and collected at 6 different locations in the tank, and consistently with the same value.

Question : I thought the PH should vary between CO2 and no CO2 injection. Any reason for this ? PH pen is calibrated with PH 7.0 buffer solution to ensure it is still accurate.

Question : If according to the measurement above the PH,KH and CO2 are established and stable, the rainbars setup and carnister filter to spin the CO2 reactor proves effective ? Should I still stick this setup ?

Cheers

[limsteel]

I got BBA few months back as I was stingy with my CO2. the BBA also coated 50% of my big dirftwood. leaves of Nana, Crypts, Tenellus and many other plants all have specks of BBA.

After cranking up the CO2 to about 8Bps for (4x2x2)ft tank, I didn't even bother to trim high infected leaves, slowly over 2 months MOST BBA cleared up, and stun further growth. Only a few spots with Strong BBA foundations survived.

With the last few scattered BBA guerilla, resistnace will be futile if I were to use Chemical warefare (H2O2) to kill them!

[PeterGwee]

[quote:7f9def7a5e="neon"][quote:7f9def7a5e="PeterGwee"]
From your test results..Unless the pH of 6.2 is not your lowest point that the tank water would go for the period of injection. I have play with reactors and tank mixing quite a bit recently and have seen patterns emerged. I can tell from experience that your rate of CO2 is excessive (6.2 with a KH of 3...) and all that is needed is either more flow to the reactor(more flow more mixing...your reactor chamber limit seems to have been exceeded with burping of bubbles though.) and in tank mixing (you lost this by supplying the flow to the reactor instead).

The nutrients are fine for your tank. Check the pH of the tank water at different locations of your tank at different points of the day. Do you get variations? Prune and remove all the algae in the tank, clean the filter followed by a large 70% water change to reset the tank again. Keep attacking the algae often...maybe 2x a week routine till the tank evens out. Try to get a powerhead to drive the reactor instead of your filter.
[/quote:7f9def7a5e]

Measurement for the tank (last night and this morning) :

When PH KH CO2 (Calculated)
----------------------- ----- ----- ---------------------
just after light off 6.2 3 56 ppm

8 hrs after light off 6.2 3 56 ppm

12 hrs after light off 6.2 3 56 ppm
& before CO2 injection

Every time the PH measurement are sample and collected at 6 different locations in the tank, and consistently with the same value.

Question : I thought the PH should vary between CO2 and no CO2 injection. Any reason for this ? PH pen is calibrated with PH 7.0 buffer solution to ensure it is still accurate.

Question : If according to the measurement above the PH,KH and CO2 are established and stable, the rainbars setup and carnister filter to spin the CO2 reactor proves effective ? Should I still stick this setup ?

Cheers[/quote:7f9def7a5e]

You are using your filter to run your reactor so there will be still flow to the reactor even when the lights are off. The flow will mix the remaining CO2 in the reactor chamber into the tank water hence you did not notice any change in pH the next day. (The off gassing and CO2 mixing probably even each other out in your case.). Are your critters acting fine? If so, you can keep it there and monitor if the BBA still grows or not. Using powerhead to drive the reactor does not have such issues of chronic CO2 24/7 though and is much safer.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[neon]

[quote:26619f6cb2="PeterGwee"]You are using your filter to run your reactor so there will be still flow to the reactor even when the lights are off. The flow will mix the remaining CO2 in the reactor chamber into the tank water hence you did not notice any change in pH the next day. (The off gassing and CO2 mixing probably even each other out in your case.). Are your critters acting fine? If so, you can keep it there and monitor if the BBA still grows or not. Using powerhead to drive the reactor does not have such issues of chronic CO2 24/7 though and is much safer.
[/quote:26619f6cb2]

I see.

Normally how long I have to continue with twice weekly water change (70% each time ?) ?

I also start seeing fuzz algae on some the big echidonourus, xmas moss, crypt. Shouldn't the CO2 enough to clear the fuzz algae , same as BBA ?

At this moment, I still have not increase my plant mass yet with fast growing plant. Any concern there ?

Cheers
CHOK

[PeterGwee]

[quote:3daa086aa0="neon"]Normally how long I have to continue with twice weekly water change (70% each time ?) ? [/quote:3daa086aa0]

When the tank is well cleaned and even out.

[quote:3daa086aa0="neon"]I also start seeing fuzz algae on some the big echidonourus, xmas moss, crypt. Shouldn't the CO2 enough to clear the fuzz algae , same as BBA ? [/quote:3daa086aa0]

CO2 will not clear up algae...it will improve plant growth. You need to remove the algae which is where the 2x a week maintenance routine speeds things up. Its work... :P

[quote:3daa086aa0="neon"]At this moment, I still have not increase my plant mass yet with fast growing plant. Any concern there ? [/quote:3daa086aa0]

More plant mass less chance of algae. Add cheap plants and remove them slowly once the tank evens out/grows in.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[blurrblurr]

For my previous case on BBA, I pump my co2 ppm to 40-50 for a few days sometimes even up to 60. Of course I monitor my critters in my tank closely. Standby to change water whenever their behaviour become wierd.

After that tried to lower the ppm back to 20-30ppm. Really can see no algae growing again.

As to save the trouble of removing BBA manually, try throw in SAE or cigar fish. Take note, they are for removing BBA only not for preventing BBA to grow back again.

My Yamatos in my tank normally clear them after few weeks. I know theorically they dun eat BBA, but mine do clear them and this skill has been passed down for few generations in the tank

[blur2x]

[quote:a42d514ecf="blurrblurr"]
...
My Yamatos in my tank normally clear them after few weeks. I know theorically they dun eat BBA, but mine do clear them and this skill has been passed down for few generations in the tank [/quote:a42d514ecf]

In the statement above, you meant you were able to breed and raise Yamoto shrimps in your tank?