Amano Tank Observations & DIY Questions

[Rupert]

Amano Tank Observations & DIY Questions
Hello All, I would like to draw upon the forums expertise to answer a few questions about the Amano tank setup. From my observation of looking at pictures found at the link below are:

1.1 Every operational item that sits inside the tank needs to be inconspicuous or transparent. Probably made of glass, almost invisible in the water
1.2 Operational pipes are also transparent as possible with some thought that if someone was just to look at these that they would respect the clean designs
1.3 Tank glass is of the highest quality, possibly Starphire glass
1.4 Tanks do not have any bracing even when the dimensions get to 350x70x70cm

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/phpBB...ht=transparent
quite a few of the pictures show the piping


2.0 Filtration Questions
2.1 Has anyone ever seen the equipment inside the cabinets? Because there seems to be two inflow pipes, but where is the outflow or how could this managed?
2.2 The link below shows another ADA tank with a different set up, could this possibly be going to a sump?
2.3 I have yet to see a tank with a surface skimmer, so what approach is used instead?
http://www.adana.co.jp/gallery.html

3.0 DIY - Transparent Prototype maker WANTED
I haven’t been able to find transparent tank inflow pipes anywhere and I do not want to pay $US100 for an AMA glass inflow pipe that I would probably break. So I want to want to find a manufacturer that can make some similar prototypes for very short production run, with some design changes. Recognizing that pipe construction needs to be of a material that is rigid but not fragile and does not leak toxins, the transparent construction options are, Polycarbonate Pipe, Acrylic Pipe/ Tube, Plastic [Beverage bottle], Medical PVC. I have search the internet extensively, sent the odd email with no luck,

3.1 So does anyone know a suitable manufacturer or someone that could make a couple of protypes? I expect that potential makers would be into plastics or produce plastic bottles or even a medical equipment supplier?
3.2 Does anyone know where to get really clear PVC or silicon hoses? Transparent PVC/silicon hoses need to be elastic enough to grasp and hold onto the inflow pipes with out restraints yet firm enough not to crease/fold blocking circulation– I have seen hoses but they seem a bit too stiff, but have used boiling water in the past to make them soft at the end, which I might have to do.
3.3 Would anyone else be interested in transparent inflow tubes?

If you have any suggestions just post them here, if you have contacts and don’t want to publicly divulge them just email or PM me. The results will be posted.

[IUnknown]

This is what I came up with,
http://www.aquascapingjournals.com/j...llie_pipes.htm

Going the plastic route, I got a quote to create a mold for around $1000. The problem is that its hard to find a Co2 resistant plastic that doesn't loose its transparency (the plastics you listed, although Co2 resistant, I think develop a cloudy haze over time). That and the fact that the wire brushes that are needed to clean the pipes, would easily scratch the plastic.

I contacted custom lab companies to make prototypes. There is so much competition with custom glassware, that you can find a good price. The prototypes are expensive, the small production run is better.

[loupgarou]

...
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the main difficulty would be getting someone to do the tank without bracing. starphire glass can be bought from

http://www.sbg.com.sg/alphabet/safety%20glass.htm
or
Singapore Safety Glass Pte Ltd
http://www.singaporesafetyglass.com/
however, you can drill two holes at the base to form the inlet and outlet and conceal them like in marine setups and thus don't have to deal with transparent tubing.

[Rupert]

Thanks IUnknown for the link to the acquascaping journal link. I like what this person has done, but $US70 is still too much, I believe that transparent lillie piping should cost approximately the same as what is already available in green?

My thinking at present is that acrylic piping is readily available; acrylic is already used for aquariums, or I need do it glass just need to find a boutique glass manufacturer or boutique acrylic supplier/manufacturer here in Singapore and see how I go.

I will keep everyone posted on progress… although progress might be a bit slow.

[ranmasatome]

Actually..the Green piping is made of plastic and the one on the site by IUnknown is glass piping...the price is obviously going to be higher for glass. i think US$70 is pretty reasonable for the SET...

[Rupert]

Could not find any plastic or acrylic manufacturers that would respond to my requests, so took the tack that Chemistry people/scientists always need glass pipes and found an organization that make some glass equipment. I have sent off the designs to find out how much a couple of prototypes would cost to make and hope to hear back from them soon.

Will post the results

[crandf]

I think they tend to blow their own stuff, so shouldn't charge extra hopefully. There's a glassblowing workshop at NUS Blk S9 beside the lift, possibly they might blow what you need for a nominal fee? but dun know what's the strength of the blown glass though.

[Rupert]

Got my first quote back for Glass Lillie pipes ... $SG230 for the outflow and $SG250 for the inflow... I didn't even mention that I wanted the glass to be tempered for strength. Pretty sure that this is the same company that does the NUS work.

No luck on the plastic front…. any contacts welcomed

Looks like I will be sticking to Eheim green pipes until I can get the pricing resolved.

[Simon]

actually, aside from the equipments transparency in Amano's tank, have anyone wonder if the reason cld simply be the equipments are removed before photographying a tank? of cause, if the desire to achieve such a tank without the unsightly appearance of equipments is what you want to achieve, then I agree with loup's idea to drill holes at the bottom, giving you the possibilities of not having the piping at the first place

[ranmasatome]

Wow...that is kinda expensive...us$70 cheap mah..

[loupgarou]

have you tried the eheim installation sets? they are pretty unobstrusive, because you can make them short and remove them from the tank when you are phototaking.

[Rupert]

At present I am not thinking about photography, but I have thought of drilling holes in the bottom of the tank, and investigated one planted tank at Far East Aquatic that had this feature, but felt that the structural integrity of the tank was now questionable, plus the internal pipes also impacted layout.

I like things that are mechanically clean/frugal to the point that the design simplicity of them is appreciated as well. In the context of looking at the aquascape these devices are overlooked even though they might be in an obvious position. AMA equipment might be cheaper than my first quotes received, but my goal is achieve substantially more affordable. So I will have to keep on working on the problem…

[Rupert]

Found this good link to an ADA training day:
http://www.pbase.com/plantella/ada_training_day_update

Have a look under day 2 and you will see some pictures of what is underneath an AMA tank.

[Simon]

[quote:fb6e7bfc37="Rupert"]Found this good link to an AMA training day:
http://www.pbase.com/plantella/ada_training_day_update

Have a look under day 2 and you will see some pictures of what is underneath an AMA tank.[/quote:fb6e7bfc37]

its ADA not AMA :P

looks normal, just a external filter and co2 cylinder. For amano, he kept it simple with the use of lily pipe. But why does it look so neat and clean, right? simple, the tank is hugh to begin with and the use of MH free the top, making the tank look much better and simple

conclusion to me, this is just one part of the whole process, we haven't touch on aquascaping (which IMO, is the most important aspect).

don't stress yourself over such stuff, quality in SG usually mean, you going to fork out alot of dough for it.

would anyone agree to cough out $200-300 for a ADA lily pipe? I'm certain not many can afford such stuff. let alone sapphire tank which will prolly cost a few thousand

[Rupert]

Thanks Simon,

I was typing too fast and have ameded the post to change AMA to ADA.

I think you are right, the Japanese approach to quality management is evident in ADA tanks with the totality perspective taken, by that I mean the whole environment that the tanks are seen in is also considered. The tanks aesthetics, contents as well as what is underneath is seen as connected. I like the mechanics, but would not pay the $$$.

I agree that the aquascaping is indeed the most important part. I actually do not perceive Amano’s aquascaping as that exiting, sure they look photogenic, but I wonder if a more “busy” tank wouldn’t be more exiting, the sort that you would put a chair in front and enjoy sitting in front of it every night when you got home from work? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder… that’s for certain.

$200 Lillie pipes are out for me… but I did see some kids the other day swimming with snorkel and flippers. The snorkels looked exactly like transparent Lillie pipes.., so I will plod along and see what can be done.

[Simon]

[quote:39e178d71b="Rupert"]Thanks Simon,

I was typing too fast and have ameded the post to change AMA to ADA.

I think you are right, the Japanese approach to quality management is evident in ADA tanks with the totality perspective taken, by that I mean the whole environment that the tanks are seen in is also considered. The tanks aesthetics, contents as well as what is underneath is seen as connected. I like the mechanics, but would not pay the $$$.

I agree that the aquascaping is indeed the most important part. I actually do not perceive Amano’s aquascaping as that exiting, sure they look photogenic, but I wonder if a more “busy” tank wouldn’t be more exiting, the sort that you would put a chair in front and enjoy sitting in front of it every night when you got home from work? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder… that’s for certain.

$200 Lillie pipes are out for me… but I did see some kids the other day swimming with snorkel and flippers. The snorkels looked exactly like transparent Lillie pipes.., so I will plod along and see what can be done.[/quote:39e178d71b]

I believe hydro do have some plastic lily pipe look alike

[Rupert]

Submitted another simplified design to the glass blower/manufacturer, now the designs looks more like two U Pipes, however this time the glass guys have committed to producing a couple of prototypes which I can pick in about a week.

So will post a picture when I have got them and when the AQ site upgrade is complete.

[Simon]

[quote:0b2de364="Rupert"]Submitted another simplified design to the glass blower/manufacturer, now the designs looks more like two U Pipes, however this time the glass guys have committed to producing a couple of prototypes which I can pick in about a week.

So will post a picture when I have got them and when the AQ site upgrade is complete.[/quote:0b2de364]

ya, update us on the U pipes... perhaps, it will get some members excited

[izzat]

[quote:ab2cac0bc1="Simon"]ya, update us on the U pipes... perhaps, it will get some members excited [/quote:ab2cac0bc1]

When the price is quote affordable to the majority, we can do a Mass Order to get better pricing.

Regards,
Izzat :P

[celticfish]

[quote:fb6e7bfc37="Rupert"]Found this good link to an AMA training day:
http://www.pbase.com/plantella/ada_training_day_update

Have a look under day 2 and you will see some pictures of what is underneath an AMA tank.[/quote:fb6e7bfc37]

its ADA not AMA :P

looks normal, just a external filter and co2 cylinder. For amano, he kept it simple with the use of lily pipe. But why does it look so neat and clean, right? simple, the tank is hugh to begin with and the use of MH free the top, making the tank look much better and simple

conclusion to me, this is just one part of the whole process, we haven't touch on aquascaping (which IMO, is the most important aspect).

don't stress yourself over such stuff, quality in SG usually mean, you going to fork out alot of dough for it.

would anyone agree to cough out $200-300 for a ADA lily pipe? I'm certain not many can afford such stuff. let alone sapphire tank which will prolly cost a few thousand

Hi Simon,

Saw the link and was curious about the "special timer" that kicks in an airpump. Didn't realise that ADA uses such stuff. And I couldn't see any airstone or pump around too. Only the timer and two cannisters in the cabinet.
http://www.pbase.com/plantella/image/35433516

Is the airpump injecting air into the Pollen Glass Beetle diffuser? I think I saw one in your discus tank too. btw am still hunting for my CO2 system. The LFS that offered the dennerle system for $xxx renegade! hmp! So i'm now considering and regular 5L tank with a JBJ regulator with ADA beetle diffusser.

Would you or anyone care to comment or advise on (a) pumping air after lights-out and (b) CO2 system combination? I know there are various post on the matters but am asking with respect to the ADA "way". Replies will be much appreciated. Thanks!

celticfish

btw Iunknown's lily pipes look quite attractive and would costs around $150 for the set - http://www.aquascapingjournals.com/j...llie_pipes.htm