Questions after flooding tank

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Tank Dimension: 31x31x36cm (OF 34L)
Soil: ADA Amazonia Soil (3L)
Filter System: Internal Overflow System.
Plants: Downoi, Staurogyne Repens, Rotala species, HC Cuba as foreground carpet(DSM for 65 days).
Light Period: 10hrs.

I have a few newbie questions:

1. I have been growing HC using DSM for the past 65 days and decided to flood it on the 66th day(last Monday; 2 days ago). I've noticed some clumps starting to turn brown today(2 days later). Is that normal and should I remove these clumps?

2. I have prepared myself 2x1.5L DIY CO2 bottles following Shadow's DIY CO2 blog. Each bottle is generating at least 2bps. Since I cannot control my CO2 injection, I'm turning my air pump on continuously. My drop checker is yellow. When I check my pH using Tetra test kit this evening, it was yellow (at least pH 6). Some HC clumps are pearling though. I've make 2 pails change of water but the pH still register pH 6. The drop checker after the water change is more towards the greenish yellow range now. Should I do daily water change during this tank cycling period?

3. What Seachem fertilizer should I use during this period? Flourish, Excel, Iron, Potassium?

4. Is it necessary to use Seachem Prime during this new tank cycling period when I don't have any fishes/shrimps in the tank?

5. Is my light period too long during this tank cycling period?

TIA.

[Urban Aquaria]

1. Its normal for some of the HC to melt during transition from emersed to submersed conditions. Best to remove the brown melting patches to reduce rotting organic matter. Try to "harvest" some healthy HC from other areas and fill in the gaps to help patch up the empty spaces.

2. Your method of using an air pump to improve water oxygenation is good, some of the Co2 will off-gas but it's one of the ways to moderate the Co2/O2 balance.

Look like you have ample Co2 levels based on the drop checker color. Without any livestock at the moment, you can afford to run higher Co2 levels without worry.

Btw, do make sure that your drop checker is using 4dkH + indicator solution (not mix with aquarium water), or using pre-mixed indicator solution. Otherwise the color readings will be incorrect.

Doing water changes during the cycling period is okay, majority of the beneficial bacteria live attached to substrates, tank surfaces, plants and filter media... very few live in the water column, so water changes wouldn't affect the cycle significantly.

3. You can dose all those fertilizers that you mentioned, they will help support the plant growth. After 60+ days of healthy fast plant growth during the DSM period, there is a chance the plants may have used up most of the macro nutrients in the soil though, so if you start noticing nutrient deficiencies or stunted growth, then you should also begin dosing macro ferts too.

4. You should definitely use Seachem Prime to dechlorinate the water before usage, otherwise the chlorine and chloramine will kill off your tank's beneficial bacteria and keep restarting the cycle.

5. 10 hours photoperiod does seem abit long, especially during the initial transition and cycling period... but if you notice the plants are growing well and algae is not appearing, then it's fine.

But if you start to see algae blooming, then have to cut back on the light photoperiod until the parameters stabilize.

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UA, thanks for your advice as always.

Is there a method to plant HC submerged? I'm not using ADA powder soil(In restrospect, maybe I should have.) I find it difficult to insert the plantlet into the ADA soil without totally burying it. Even then, the ADA soil seems so loose, it can't hold anything without inserting the plant really deep. There are a few green plantlets amidst those clumps that have turned brown and they are pearling.

I'm using those OF pre-mixed indicator solution in a OF conical plastic indicator. (I should not have said "drop checker" as I realized that it refers to a particular design). I think I'll change the indicator solution and monitor again. This morning, the indicator solution register a lighter yellow colour.

Is there a way to inject more CO2 without lowering the pH of the water? I think for my nano tank, one 1.5L DIY CO2 bottle is enough. I guess I'll have to remove the other freshly made DIY CO2 bottle.

I'll follow your advice to make big water change daily and dose those fertilizers.

[Urban Aquaria]

Planting HC submerged is just a matter of getting long enough stalks or bunches of HC, then pushing them deep into the soil, its okay if most of the plant is hidden inside the soil, as long as the top few leaves pop out of the substrate its fine.

Yeah, ADA powder-type soil makes it much easier to plant HC submersed, thats one of the main reasons why most aquascapers like to use it.

Since you are using the pre-mixed Co2 indicator solution, then the yellow color means you have more than enough Co2 levels for the plants to utilize. Just have to dial back the injection rate when you start adding livestock, and try to keep the color towards the green range.

Investing in a proper Co2 system with solenoid regulator would be a better idea if you have the budget though, its a much more consistent and hassle-free Co2 supply, and less chance of killing the livestock due to spikes in excessive Co2 levels too.

Co2 injection will always lower the water pH, if you want to supply more carbon and yet not reduce pH further, the the liquid carbon products like Seachem Excel can help. Many keepers of high-tech tanks use both Co2 injection and Seachem Excel.

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I'm in a dilemma; should I pull out all my melted HC(65 days of patience wasted. :-( ) and replant again with Monte Carlo or should I exhibit more patience and wait. Today is the 5th day after flooding my tank. I'm using a Green Element 6x3W LED light in my OF nano tank.

Quite a few clumps of my HC has melted since I flooded my tank. However, there are green plantlets amidst the melted clumps and they are pearling when the lights are on. I'm injecting with DIY CO2 and my CO2 checker is greenish yellow. As UA mentioned, the melting is due to the HC adapting to its new watery environment. The fact that I have used DSM for slightly more than 2 months, the root in each clumps would have grown roots into the substrate. When I pulled up a melted clump, it has long roots(almost regretted pulling it out.)

If I do replant, I will have to layer my foreground with a finer soil in order for my carpet plant to grasp the soil better. Someone did mention that the granularity of normal ADA Amazonia soil is "like boulders to the HC". Lesson learned. I will have to drain all the water out to do this.

I'm sure some of you have gone through this same journey as me. What did you do or what would you have done?

TIA.

[Urban Aquaria]

Well, since you have Co2 injection and ample light, it'll be a good idea to still carry on growing the HC... just do the necessary trimming and re-planting to spruce it up. Eventually the gaps will be filled up and after a series and trimming and re-growth, you'll get a nice lush carpet.

HC does require more care and maintenance than other plants to form a nice carpet, but it is still the smallest leaved carpet plant around so far.

Anyways, if you do decide to change it out, then can just replace all of it with MC, their leaves are noticeably larger, but its much easier to grow and can tolerate a wider range of conditions.

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Now the Staurogyne Repens which I've planted on DSM together with the HC is starting to have brown patches on its leaves. Some leaves have turned brown completely. Is this also due to the transition period from emersed to submerged or due to a lack of trace element? If it is later, which trace element(s) should I be dosing?

[Urban Aquaria]

Could be either cause (or both)... just trim off the brown parts and dose abit more micro/trace nutrients.

The Seachem Flourish and Potassium you are using should be able to supply a good mix of those nutrients.

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One stem of my S. repens got all its leaves with brown patches and I snipped it all away leaving just the stem with its roots in the substrate. Without leaves, will it sprout leaves again? Don't laugh, I'm just a beginner. :-(

[Urban Aquaria]

One stem of my S. repens got all its leaves with brown patches and I snipped it all away leaving just the stem with its roots in the substrate. Without leaves, will it sprout leaves again? Don't laugh, I'm just a beginner. :-(

Its possible, if the stems are still healthy, new adapted leaves should sprout out again after some time (it may take a while though).

I guess if they are too damaged to grow back, then no choice just have to buy new ones and re-plant.

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I'm just wondering; if my newly flooded tank does not exhibit much algae, I should not need to change water but just top up the water level as I will not be:
1. pouring away precious liquid fertilizers that I have dozed in the tank.
2. diluting the fertilizers concentration
3. Introducing sudden change to my water chemistry through massive water change.

I can understand that the rationale of regular water change is to remove excess nutrients in the water as it promotes algae growth. However, if not much algae is observed even though my light period is 10hrs, I should not need to change water. Am I correct? I suspect those fast growing plants like Rolata Nanjenshan(yet to confirm) which I have planted quite a bit in the background is absorbing excess nutrients as I can see that it is growing upwards quite fast.

My pH is still 6.0 or below even though my CO2 checker is yellowish green. My Tetra pH test kit can only register minimum 6.0.
My Ammonia level is 0.25mg/L (again from Tetra), Nitrite is 0 mg/L and Nitrate is 15 mg/L. My Nitrite and Nitrate test kit is from Seachem. While I'm quite certain about the Nitrite reading(as it is almost clear), I can't be sure on the Nitrate reading as it is so difficult to compare the shades of magenta reading in the palette to the most accurate color in that sliding color chart which comes with the test kit. I did test with the reference liquid and it measures 10mg/L for Nitrate. Is my tank cycled? Its been only 6 days.

[Urban Aquaria]

If you find that the nutrients are sufficient for the plants and algae is under control, you could reduce the volume and frequency of water changes. Regular physical removal of plants (aka trimming and pruning) will become your main method for nutrient export.

But do note that certain nutrients may not get used up or get used slower than others and therefore will still accumulate in the water, including minerals (ie. from rocks, additives, ferts etc) which gradually increase GH and TDS.

For plants this isn't too much of an issue, but if you add livestock into the tank, they may be more sensitive to specific water conditions or nutrients/minerals. It's one of the reasons why people get puzzled when they see their plants growing well and the parameters look okay, yet certain fishes or shrimps keep dying.

A TDS meter is useful in this case (they are cheap and easy to use, can get from LFS or just order from online sites), as you can monitor its rise over time, especially in tanks with less frequent or less regular water changes. Many people use TDS meters to check and determine whether it's time to do water changes in their tanks.

Based on your test kit results, looks like your tank is still cycling... just wait until ammonia and nitrite are confirmed zero and steady, then you can consider it cycled. Usually after DSM, most of the ammonia in the soil substrate would have been used up by the rapid plant growth, and the beneficial bacteria colonies would also have already been establishing and growing for many weeks inside the soil, so it's possible the cycling period may complete in a shorter period of time.

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My Tropica Alternanthera Reineckii 'mini' is turning brownish even though I have been dozing the recommended dosage of Seachem Iron into the water. I wonder if it is also going through a transition period. Are Tropica AR 'mini' grown emersed before they are packaged into cups and sent to LFS? I have been daily dozing Excel, Flourish, Iron, Potassium and today Nitrogen. Before planting the AR 'mini' 7 days ago, I have inserted a Flourish Tab below the substrate where I planted the AR 'mini'. I've also been adding Stability into the water to build up my BB. No sign of algae so far even though my light period is 10hrs. My CO2 checker continues to exhibit yellowish green color.

My tank temperature was hovering at 32 degree Celsius last Saturday. The heat is likely due to my internal IOS pump and my LED light. I have invested in a Top-Aqua Cooling Fan and it managed to lower the temperature to 28 degree Celsius. I read somewhere in this forum that keeping the water temperature low will allow the CO2 to saturate faster. Is that true?

Since my 1 pail water change last Saturday, I notice that my HC is not pearling as much as before the water change. There are new plantlets growing amidst the brownish clumps. I've been increasing the Excel dosage, hoping that the pearling will increase but didn't notice a marked difference compared to before water change. That prompted me to post the question above about the need for water change. I don't have any fauna now and I plan to just top up with Prime treated water instead of doing water change to see if situation will improve.

[Urban Aquaria]

Your tank seems abit tricky to troubleshoot... by its equipment and setup, with Co2 injection, sufficient light, good aquasoil and fertilizer dosing, the plants should be growing well.

The transition process of plants could explain the browning and melting, but that should be relatively minimal since your DSM already established the plant well and gives them a higher chance to adapt and resume growth. The Tropica plants (they come in the 1-2-Grow cups?) should also be young healthy tissue-cultured plants, so their transition period should also be quick.

I guess you'll just have to let the plants recover and grow out new leaves, and then monitor their progress from there.

32°C is pretty high for an indoor tank, and the weather is going to get even warmer in the coming months. You'll definitely have to find ways to keep the tank at a more moderate temperature, especially when you add livestock.

Maybe consider switching the filtration system to a hang-on filter or canister filter? That would help to reduce the heat from the IOS submersed pump equipment. Also look at switching to cooler LED lights too.

Not sure about lower temperature allowing Co2 to saturate faster, but generally high temperatures result in the water holding less oxygen, so perhaps Co2 is also affected too.

Whether your HC pearl or not after water change would also depend on the oxygen levels after the water change, if the new water has low oxygen levels, then the oxygen content in the tank will also drop, which means it also takes more time for the oxygen levels to go back to saturation levels (and pearling) though plant photosynthesis.

Btw, what light model and type of Co2 diffuser are you using?

And how is the placement of the diffuser in relation to the drop checker? Just asking in case the Co2 bubbles are flowing into the drop checker and creating false readings.

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Thank you UA for always taking the time to response and advise. I always look forward to it.

Attachment 48011

My sorry looking tank is as above. I'm really embarrassed to show my tank but they say "A picture paints a thousand word". My CO2 checker is placed diagonally opposite the outflow of my IOS. I'm not using any diffuser but just a simple airstone. They are placed behind the black panel which is my IOS which has 3 chambers. My air pump outlet is also within the filter pump chamber on the extreme left.

My HC is not as well carpeted as I would like it to be. There are new growth amidst the brownish clumps though. My Downoi seems to be adapting well as it is sprouting new leaves even though the lower layer leaves seems to be melting. The rotala sp. "green" is growing fast. The AR 'mini' at the center does not seems to be turning red but brownish. Some of the leaves are having brown patches. I have pulled out all the stems of Staurogyne Repens that has brown patches leaves at the top left hand corner. I plan to get new S.R this weekend to replant.

I have earlier put my air pump on timer to be turned on only after the lights turn off. I think I will turn it on continuously now so that it can help dissipate the heat generated by the filter pump and at the same time generate oxygen in the water.

So far, no visible sight of algae. It has been a week since I last flooded the tank last Monday.

I just hope my AR 'mini' won't die on me.

[14litre]

Before I start, I wish to make a note about myself first. I am still new to planted tank and I just started a small tank with Marsilea Hirsuta as the carpet grass.

I am using emersed planting.

I tried 2 methods basically.
1st method is to cut the stem (or stalk) from the runner, leaving the root and then plant it into the substrate.
2nd method is the same as 1st method with the additional removal of all leaves.

This is my tank on Day 3:


This is my tank today (Day 10):


You will notice those plants on the top left hand corner had a better growth.
Guess what, these are the ones that I used method 2.

This is how the plants look like when I removed the leaves during the day of planting:


I am still waiting to see more results before I publish an update to the other thread of mine.

I thought of sharing it here after reading your issue.
Perhaps you can try planting (or replanting) a few without its leaves and see if there is any progress.

Do not try all, maybe a few to test it out. I am not sure if it will work.

This 2nd method was not created by me. I chanced upon a youtube video and did it as an experiment.

My tank specs:
14 L only
Light, LED lights (I think total output is 3.5W), for about 5-6 hours (occasionally 7 max)
ADA Amazonia Aquasoil
Daily dosage (about 3 ML) of Flourish Excel
Marsilea Hirsuta
Some floating plants (forgotten the name)

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My HC instead of spreading sideway, seems to be growing upwards. I have a Green Element EVO12 and it has 6x3W LED. With my tank height of only 36cm, surely it is sufficient to penetrate the depth. How do you make it spread sideway? Do I give it a "hair cut"?

[Urban Aquaria]

My HC instead of spreading sideway, seems to be growing upwards. I have a Green Element EVO12 and it has 6x3W LED. With my tank height of only 36cm, surely it is sufficient to penetrate the depth. How do you make it spread sideway? Do I give it a "hair cut"?

Just trim the taller HC, re-plant the cut tops and fill in the gaps, that evens out their growth height. Regular trimming helps to maintain a low and dense HC carpet.