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Thread: Which water from supermarket can be used?

  1. #21
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    Re: Which water from supermarket can be used?

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    Quote Originally Posted by atwin View Post
    Now NTUC at Whampoa having promotion for both LIFE and NTUC house brand.
    Are both the same product?

    One is stated as "100% P Dist Water" and the other is stated "Pure Drinking Water".

    Any difference? Many will catch no ball.



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    Re: Which water from supermarket can be used?

    Quote Originally Posted by tetrakid View Post
    Are both the same product?

    One is stated as "100% P Dist Water" and the other is stated "Pure Drinking Water".

    Any difference? Many will catch no ball.
    My thoughts are both are classified under drinkable water.
    Main difference is LIFE has been through distillation process and gotten rid of most minerals, contaminants and chemicals or at least those which have a higher boiling point than water as only steam is collected after boiling. There is no indication on NTUC house brand so we are unable to tell if the water has been processed in anyway such as filtration or purification. But it is still consider safe to drink by the required standards.

  3. #23
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    Re: Which water from supermarket can be used?

    Only way to know for sure is to test with TDS meter... as long as its 0 reading, its distilled water.
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    Re: Which water from supermarket can be used?

    True. So long the reading is 0.
    Even my office drinking water which is labelled as oxygenated water also has a reading of 8~9.

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    Re: Which water from supermarket can be used?

    Very good thread. Don't mean to derail poster's original topic, but will "distilled water" or "pure drinking water" create water marks on aquarium glass? I'm experimenting with a Paludarium and issues with water marked stains on glass from misting are an eyesore.

    Stumbled upon the exact NTUC website (which bro UA posted a link of) before I found this thread. Thinking of getting either 'Life' or the house brand. Thanks in advance.

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    Re: Which water from supermarket can be used?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donut the Donkey View Post
    Very good thread. Don't mean to derail poster's original topic, but will "distilled water" or "pure drinking water" create water marks on aquarium glass? I'm experimenting with a Paludarium and issues with water marked stains on glass from misting are an eyesore.

    Stumbled upon the exact NTUC website (which bro UA posted a link of) before I found this thread. Thinking of getting either 'Life' or the house brand. Thanks in advance.
    As long as there are some minerals in the tank water (which will naturally be produced from things like soil, sand, rocks, fish food etc), there will be mineral deposits/stains appearing when water levels and droplets dry up due to evaporation.

    Maintaining very low TDS softwater conditions in your tank can help slow down the dried mineral build up and stains, though it also still has to match your livestock requirements too.
    :: Urban Aquaria ::
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    Re: Which water from supermarket can be used?

    I start my regular water change with distiller water. Now my planted tank tds maintain at 180ppm. Is it healthy?

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    Re: Which water from supermarket can be used?

    The purpose of using 0 TDS water is to prevent build up of unwanted chemicals and metal in the water column. Pure water is the best because it is pure. Marine hobbyist can then have the information of what is contained in the water by not introducing unknown contaminant into the tank. Stuff like chlorine, chloramine, rust and many other contaminant unknown that we did not test for. Using pure water is akin to eliminating any unforseen unknown factor that you do not know. You are left with what you know you added into the water.
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    Re: Which water from supermarket can be used?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dscheng View Post
    I start my regular water change with distiller water. Now my planted tank tds maintain at 180ppm. Is it healthy?
    Testing your tank water tds level is kinda silly In My Opinion. The result will still be unknown to you. Sure, you got a reading of 180ppm, but 180ppm of what? Chlorine, chloramine, phosphate, nitrate, magnesium, calcium, so on and so forth? I am not saying Dscheng is silly nor am I single him out but the fact that there are hobbyist out there doing this tds testing of their tank water, I find it odd. And the best part is, it has become a standard practise now, which I find is perplexing. Don't follow something that is wrong.

    If you are testing/measuring something and the result is still unknown or more question arise, is the testing/measurement the correct yardstick to follow?
    Last edited by BFG; 28th Jun 2015 at 23:36.
    If you've learnt, teach, if you have, give.
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  10. #30
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    Re: Which water from supermarket can be used?

    In the marine side of the hobby, here are the parameter that you need to test for.

    1) Temperature. Always keep it at a constant point, try not to exceed beyond 2 degree celsius.

    2) Salinity. Measure the salinity at the temperature you set. Different salinity level will occur at different temperature point. Get a refractometer plus the American Pinpoint Salinity Calibration fluid to calibrate your refractometer to measure salinity level. DO NOT USE pure water to calibrate the refractometer. Floating and swing arm hydrometer are inaccurate due to air bubbles sometimes appearing on the instrument and gives an inaccurate reading.

    3) Phosphate. Keep it near to zero. If you see algae in your tank and your reading is 0, that means that the algae is consuming the phosphate before you are able to detect it. Do not assume you do not have a phosphate problem. On a personal note, I have never achieve 0ppm of phosphate.

    4) Nitrate. Same as above, same experience for me too.

    5) Alkalinity. Up to individual, 8 is a good level, double digit is too much. But it will depend on your livestock.

    6) Calcium. 400++ppm is ideal but also depend on your livestock. Some coral suck calcium like drinking water. Too high, your pump might get calcified and jam up. Calcium and alkalinity are connected, when 1 goes up, the other will follow.

    7) Magnesium. 1380ppm is a good starting point, 1500ppm and above will prevent certain algae from increasing but above that level, precipitation will occur.

    Hope this helps!
    If you've learnt, teach, if you have, give.
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  11. #31
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    Re: Which water from supermarket can be used?

    Quote Originally Posted by BFG View Post
    Testing your tank water tds level is kinda silly In My Opinion. The result will still be unknown to you. Sure, you got a reading of 180ppm, but 180ppm of what? Chlorine, chloramine, phosphate, nitrate, magnesium, calcium, so on and so forth? I am not saying Dscheng is silly nor am I single him out but the fact that there are hobbyist out there doing this tds testing of their tank water, I find it odd. And the best part is, it has become a standard practise now, which I find is perplexing. Don't follow something that is wrong.

    If you are testing/measuring something and the result is still unknown or more question arise, is the testing/measurement the correct yardstick to follow?
    Yeah, i know what you mean... measurement of TDS is mainly to get a quick gauge on how much general "stuff" is in the water column, but although it doesn't measure specific parameters, it is still a fast and simple way to find out if something is amiss in an overall sense (dip the TDS meter into the water and press a button, instant reading). It is just helpful as a first level general quick test... its not the only test to be done.

    For freshwater tanks, if the livestock and plants are doing well and the TDS is hovering within a stable range, then no issues... but if the TDS is increasing usually fast or suddenly spiking up, then the aquarium keeper can get some earlier warning to check the setup and do more detailed tests to find out the reasons and take action before actual problems start to arise (especially if they are keeping sensitive fishes or shrimps that can't tolerate odd changes in water condition).

    I find that its at least better than not doing any test at all and just waiting until the livestock start showing problems (by then it might be too late), or having to go through the time consuming tedious testing of every parameter regularly when there isn't really a need to, since most of the time things are okay. The TDS test is easy and just takes a few seconds to spot any irregularities.

    This is also useful when introducing new fishes or transferring fishes across tanks too, as TDS affects their osmotic regulation, so if there is a high variation between the 2 environments, the TDS tests will help to establish and track how much time and effort should be put into acclimating the livestock before transfer.

    EDIT: Btw... i just realized you are talking more about the marine aspect of the hobby and some of us are talking more about the freshwater aspect, so it seems the discussions are switching back and forth between marine and freshwater, hence the different approaches to testing and measurements.
    Last edited by Urban Aquaria; 29th Jun 2015 at 00:43.
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  12. #32
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    Re: Which water from supermarket can be used?

    Previously, my mature tank TDS is 300~400ppm. So my question is which ideal TDS reading is suitable general planted tank. Of course the normal water parameter must be measured too.

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    Re: Which water from supermarket can be used?

    I agree testing TDS alone of the tank water is pointless.
    But like DScheng he said he test the distilled water and confirm it has 0 TDS reading, he will be happy to use the distilled water for top up or WC.
    So for that purpose, it is a very appropriate use of the TDS meter. I also like to do it. So for this use and also as a general indicator, I don't consider it a silly thing.



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    Re: Which water from supermarket can be used?

    Just to share. I did measure TDS of tap water, rain water, the Life Brand distilled water and NTUC pure drinking water.

    TDS values:
    My tap water: 110-120
    Rain water:
    initial downpour: 25-30
    15-30 minutes later: 10-19
    Lowest so far: 8-9

    NTUC Life brand Distilled water: 005

    NTUC Pure Drinking water: 100

    pH values for both NTUC Life Distilled and NTUC Pure drinking waters are around 6.5
    Rain water is ~5 and tap water is ~7.5

    I track TDS and also pH (to see how and if it would influence /affect the breeding success rate of specific betta species that come from habitats with very Soft Acidic Water).

    Other variables (temperature, plants, substrate , feeds etc.) may affect the results as well.

    Cost wise, water with low TDS and low pH are from:
    1. Life Di @5.9/Ctn or
    2. buy RO water from JB outlets at RM7/19Liters (container excluded).
    3. Rain water
    Transport and delivery are other considerations.

    Distilled and RO waters suppose to have 0 TDS, but membrane, media and process factors may affect the outcome, and/or inaccuracy of measuring instrument etc.

    Any one have TDS values far different from mine on NTUC products?









    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Re: Which water from supermarket can be used?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dscheng View Post
    Previously, my mature tank TDS is 300~400ppm. So my question is which ideal TDS reading is suitable general planted tank. Of course the normal water parameter must be measured too.
    This is one of the problem. There are no specific tds level for aquarium water because there was none to begin with. Somebody somewhere began dipping in their tds meter in the tank water and soon everybody follow. There are specific parameter to measure for planted tank like nitrate, phosphate, iron and such that when you conduct the measurement, you gain the data you were looking for and proceed to do what is needed. Even going by Estimative Index is beneficial as you know what is your nutrient level and how much your plants are consuming the micro and macro nutrient.

    Using tds meter to measure rodi water output IS the preferred method as you need to know how pure your supply water is. Measuring tds of your tap water would let you know what is the level of contaminant you started with. Measuring the tds level of rain water is ok too as you also need to know how much the contaminants are present but never assume the levels are constant. But measuring the tds level of tank water is not needed as the variable are too big to begin with! There maybe contaminant that indirectly disrupt the tds meter and add to the higher reading. When this happens, what can you deduce from the result you've achieve? It might trigger you to make a drastic change to your tank water when there were no problem in the 1st place.

    Also, the reading taken cannot be said to be constant or similar if compared to the same reading from another tank. Tank A and B has similar reading of 180ppm but 180ppm of what? Can it be from fish, shrimp waste/food? Can it be from dead leaves being broken down by bacteria? Can it be from the soil? Can it be even from dust particle being blown into the water by the cooling fan? These variable, which are not measured but may affect the tds meter reading, which we cant test it out for.
    Last edited by BFG; 30th Jun 2015 at 13:22.
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    Re: Which water from supermarket can be used?

    Quote Originally Posted by tetrakid View Post
    I agree testing TDS alone of the tank water is pointless.
    But like DScheng he said he test the distilled water and confirm it has 0 TDS reading, he will be happy to use the distilled water for top up or WC.
    So for that purpose, it is a very appropriate use of the TDS meter. I also like to do it. So for this use and also as a general indicator, I don't consider it a silly thing.
    Yes to using tds meter to test rodi water purity, this is the norm. No to using the tds meter to test the tank water as you gain nothing from the test result and it is inconclusive as there were no standardised level in the 1st place to show what is a healthy level of the tank water. As far as the best practise are, you need to test for other parameter as per the norm. Use the tds meter to measure the water purity that you add into the tank, not the tank water.
    If you've learnt, teach, if you have, give.
    Don't walk behind me as I might not lead, don't walk in front of me as I might not follow. Walk beside me, as my friend.
    Mohamad Rohaizal is my name. If it's too hard, use BFG. I don't mind.

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    Re: Which water from supermarket can be used?

    Quote Originally Posted by BFG View Post
    Yes to using tds meter to test rodi water purity, this is the norm. No to using the tds meter to test the tank water as you gain nothing from the test result and it is inconclusive as there were no standardised level in the 1st place to show what is a healthy level of the tank water. As far as the best practise are, you need to test for other parameter as per the norm. Use the tds meter to measure the water purity that you add into the tank, not the tank water.
    But when we buy a new TDS meter, we can test it on the tank water, tap water and any other water (eg distilled, mineral, drinking, new, etc) too.
    It is shiok to see that the meter works. It is like a 'magic wand', very fun.



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    Re: Which water from supermarket can be used?

    You can do what you want to your tds meter, its yours anyway. But to use it to measure your tank water and declaring it it is so and so ppm, it create something unnecessary and unquantifiable. The main gripe is that there are no standardisation when using it on your tank water as the variable is vast.

    When you measure nitrate, you get a test kit, you test the water, you get an answer. With the data you get, depending on the level, you know what to do next. This is the standard.

    With the tds meter, you are measuring every available 'solids' in the tank water column. The worst thing is that you do not know what these 'solids' are. Also, there are no similarity if 2 tanks share the same tds level. There's no standardisation. If tank A and tank B have a nitrate level of 5ppm, you know both tank has the same problem. Not with the tds level though. Can anyone say what 180 ppm reading on the tds level contain? If you do not know what you are measuring, how can you assume publicly, that it is an ok level when someone else that has the same level or lower is having problem with his planted tank?

    This is the main gripe I am highlighting to the misuse of the tds meter. Stop and think about it. Follow the norm testing eg, ph, kh, gh, nitrate, phosphate, etc, etc. Stop creating something that wasnt necessary in the 1st place and making it the norm. Dont use your tds meter on your tank water.
    If you've learnt, teach, if you have, give.
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  19. #39
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    Re: Which water from supermarket can be used?

    I do agree with BFG on not using just TDS as the sole means of determining whether a tank's conditions are optimal or not... its like just measuring only one parameter (ie. ammonia) and assuming everything else is okay. Its only one of the supporting tests to do, not the only test.

    But just for those who are keen to read up more on it, there are various other reasons to use a TDS meter as part of the tests for an aquarium, this article is a good reference for its usage and application: http://www.plecoplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?p=29328
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    Re: Which water from supermarket can be used?

    I agree with Shifu BFG that measuring a tank's water with a TDS meter is quite pointless as there are so many other variables and parameters to consider.
    Personally, I think a Nitrate Test is more useful for testing a well-seasoned tank's water than a TDS meter.
    Of course to be thorough, it is best to own a good test kit.



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