Monte Carlo attempt #2, starting to fail again

[gumball]

Hey guys. My previous Monte Carlo carpet attempt was ruined by an algae attack. I restarted the whole tank and all seemed well. Bought the plants from tropica which seemed to perform quite well. Week 3 now, I see some nice growth with green leaves. Unfortunately recently I've spotted some form of dying off again. My co2 drop checker is green when co2 is on. Only recent changes I've made that I can think of is the addition of some other plants in the aquarium, and changing the siesta from 2 hours to one hour.

Stats from my api test kit:
nitrates about 10ppm.
pH: about 6.

I have not been dosing any ferts as it appears to be growing quite well before. This week I've lightly dosed some Seachem Flourish (the liquid turned black though)

I've attached some pics of the Monte Carlo, hope someone can help me identify what's wrong with them. They appear to be browning or something, like they got toasted. New growth also seems small to me?

Also attached are pictures of the new plants. The red and the tall leafy ones behind.

[Urban Aquaria]

If the MC was growing well the past few weeks, it means the light and Co2 are probably sufficient... therefore that just leaves nutrients to be the deficient factor. The newly added plants may be soaking up essential nutrients much faster than the MC too, so you'll need to dose additional fertilizers to support their continued growth.

Seachem Flourish is quite "light" in terms of various nutrient concentrations, so you may need to dose more of it to be effective in your setup (the bottle recommended dosages are just general starting values, you have to adjust the dosages based on plant growth and mass). Just increase the fertilizer dosage progressively and observe the plants, it takes a while to take effect (the changes wouldn't be immediate). The goal is to see the plants start showing more new healthy growth and less melting old growth.

[gumball]

Hmmm thanks UA. My previous tank failed as I was overzealous and dosed heavily on the seachem flourish which lead to the algae overtaking the tank. Will flourish suffice or is there a better fertiliser that I should use? Tried googling for Monte Carlo leave browning deficiency symptoms but could not find anything.

[Urban Aquaria]

Hmmm thanks UA. My previous tank failed as I was overzealous and dosed heavily on the seachem flourish which lead to the algae overtaking the tank. Will flourish suffice or is there a better fertiliser that I should use? Tried googling for Monte Carlo leave browning deficiency symptoms but could not find anything.

Well, there can be many other reasons for algae growth, not just extra fertiliser dosing... could be too much light, too little Co2, not enough plant density to use the nutrients and light, or even certain troublesome algae hitchhiked in on some of the plants and establish an early foothold to take advantage and bloom (which may not have appeared in other setups as they were not introduced in the first place).

Your objective is to balance all 3 factors... light, Co2 and nutrients, so that the plants are not limited by them to grow.

In your current setup, since light and Co2 seem to be okay (as the plants were growing fine initially), it looks like nutrients are the limiting factor, since it's the variable that can be easily depleted over time, so just increase their dosage until the plants show improvement in overall growth. There is no "fixed" cure-all prescribed dosage amount as all setups are different, you just have to adjust and observe. Eventually you will find the right combinations after some experience.

As for better fertilisers, that's subjective... some will recommend certain brands as those have worked for their particular setups, some may recommend EI dosing with dry ferts, while some don't even dose any ferts at all and just rely on nutrients generated from the tank bio-load. All could work, and also could still generate problems, so you have to read up on what others have used successfully and try to see if it works for you.

[Jimmy]

Limiting the nutrients is like starving your plants. I prefer to overdose it, using dry fert, and balance it with co2 & light.

[gumball]

Hmm okay, I'll try dosing the SeaChem flourish more often and see how it goes.

[gumball]

So I was looking around the forums on fertilizers, and I came across this thread: http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...054#post787054
Maybe I'm not dosing potassium that's why my MC is dying! Shall go get my hands on a bottle. Also my soil used is the H.E.L.P advanced, so maybe there is a lack of nutrients. Previous using ADA Amazonia my glosso grew very well for months without much other fertilizers.

[Urban Aquaria]

Perhaps it could be potassium... or it could also be due to other nutrients too, so just dose them and monitor.

Btw, if you refer to my earlier posts in the thread you linked, my fertilizer combo recommendations are based on tanks using brand new ADA Amazonia aquasoil (which usually supply alot of maco nutrients for a longer period of time)... for setups using other brands of soil which may not contain as much nutrients, you'll probably need to start dosing macro nutrients like nitrogen and phosphates much earlier.

[gumball]

Hi UA, what else would you recommend for supplement if I were to continue using Flourish Comprehensive? Seachem Nitrogen, Potassium, and Phosphorous? By the way if I have nitrate readings of 10ppm, will I still require to supplement Nitrogen?

[Urban Aquaria]

Hi UA, what else would you recommend for supplement if I were to continue using Flourish Comprehensive? Seachem Nitrogen, Potassium, and Phosphorous? By the way if I have nitrate readings of 10ppm, will I still require to supplement Nitrogen?

At this moment, since your nitrate levels are still detectable, perhaps no need to dose nitrogen. If you have some fishes or shrimps in the tank and you are feeding them regularly, their waste can generate some nitrates and phosphates too. So just dose the flourish and also maybe potassium if you can get it, and see if it improves the plant growth.

[gumball]

Just got some seachem potassium and dosed them today. Will monitor and see. Majority are already turning a shade of dark green. I hope they'll pick up after this.

[absb]

Just rem to do it progressively when you change your dosing . This is something that need patient cos you don't want another algae outbreak

Good luck bro !


As Above So Below

[gumball]

Just an update, I had to go on an overseas trip for 10 days, and when I got back, the tank was ruined. massive algae outbreak. I just restarted the tank again today. Will try monte carlo again after the water has been rid of ammonia. This time I'll make sure to dose potassium and phosphorous right from the start. I was under the impression I did not have to cause my previous experience with glosso and ADA soil was relatively easy, just add co2 and they really thrived.

[Urban Aquaria]

Yeah, with ADA Amazonia aquasoil it really makes growing plants much easier during the start up stages, there is ample essential nutrients released by the soil to support strong plant growth.

From other user experiences (and also from my own experience with it), the HELP soil does seem to be relatively lower in nutrient content, while it may be okay for slow growth plants, its not enough for faster growing ones. So i guess if you use that brand of soil, just have to add alot more fertilizers to compensate.

Or just switch back to ADA Amazonia aquasoil and save all the hassle, grow plants well from the start.

[Allan Asis]

are you dosing any phosphates? phosphates from Flourish comprehensive is negligible if any at all.
Just try to up your dosing on P and K, possibly 15-20ppm total per week of K and 5-10ppm of P.

You can use http://yanc.rotalabutterfly.com/ as nutrient calculator. There's a reference for Seachem line if that's what you are using.

One thing of concern is that I noticed the lack of magnesium in Singapore tap water. You can either supply it with seachem equilibrium or epsom salt. best is actual Mg2SO4 if you can have a hand with this powder. But before you worry about this, supply enough NPK first as above.

Once you start to see growth and green then you'll know you're able to cover NPK.

[gumball]

Hi Allan, I wasn't dosing anything except flourish comprehensive as I thought my soil could last but apparently not. I will start dosing P and K when I start my round. Thanks for your advice people!