Changing water
Hi all,
I was using 4x36w for my 4x2x2 for over one year without much problems, I changed water like once every two months or sometimes 3 months since I was working abroad and only home on weekends.
After leaving my job in KL, I decided to "promote" my tank to "high tech" tank. Bought a pair of MH lights and happily fixed it on. Increased my CO2, and dosed about 20ppm of NO3 and PO4 before I left for my 1-week diving trip. Big mistake. I forgot to adjust the Light Timer and when I am back, full of BBA. I believe due to insufficient nutrients after few days (the lighting was running like eleven hours every day previously)
Being monitoring my tank very closely these few weeks. Measuring the KH, PH NO3 and PO4 every two days or so to fine the "sweet spot".
With my low bio-load, I noticed my plants comsume more than 10ppm of NO3 every two days. I am considering adding 50-100 rummy nose before I add more plants.
I begin wondering now if I need to change water at all. I believe most hobbist here change water to reduce their tank's NO3 and PO4 while mine are normally undetectable, both. I will normally dose 10ppm of KNO3 and some PO4 together with 10-15ml of Dr.Mallick LushGrow Aqua during "off light hours", wait a few hours and test to confirm my test kit still working. Question, will the water quality ever degrade if all nutrients are absorb by the plants and I add them back again? (Note: I do top up my water every three days or so since I am running two AC fans together with the lights.)
My current tank's specs,
4x2x2
Lights=2x150w Osram daylight MH
Operating hours=6hrs (from 6pm-12am)
KH=5
PH=6.5
Temp (recent)=26-27 degrees celsius
why don't you be the first to try , if you're removing plant material out, maybe that will suffice.. (ie: open cycle rather than a closed cycle tank)..
think about it, some sewage treatment plants use living plants to remove hardmetals and other toxins from the water system before final treatment.
The need for change of water in a "high tech" tank is to maintain the balance of the nutrients in the water.
In a high tech tank, one adds lots of stuff into the water. However, the plants are not going to used all the stuff you add in the water at equal rate. Some component may get depleted very fast (e.g. NO3), and you have to constantly add more fertilisers. Those components that are use at lower rates will get accumulated, while the others get depleted. If there is not water change, this get aggrevated and you will run into problems later.
So it is not about water quality degrading, but more of nutrient management.
BC
When you added more light=> more CO2 demand.
Low CO2=> BBA.
Make sure you measure the pH if you use a meter with the power off on the lights and other equipment.
You'll need to trim off the algae then correct the CO2.
The tank will also use more nutrients, so you will need to dose more.
More light is not better as you have learned.
Regards,
Tom Barr
Originally Posted by Plantbrain
Thank you for all the advises guys. I noticed most BBA like to grow on non-living things like rain bars, surface skimmers etc or very slow growing plants like Nanas anubias. I would really like to know why.
Anyway, I had bleached my rainbar sparkling clean and leave the surface skimmer still full of BBA as it is. Having more CO2 than recommended and monitoring the nutrients so often, I hope to see how the BBA can regrow on my rainbar or if the surface skimmer's will die off eventually(my yamato had been ripping them). I had remove most BBA on plants,the nanas had just gone through an amazing "grooming" session.
For the past three days, no new BBA was spotted on the rainbar. Planning over the next two weeks or so, if no BBA are able to grow on my rainbar, I might play about with my CO2 to a PH of 6.7 before toying with the nutrients. I understand many had the experiences and knowledge of BBA, but I really want to experiment with it and learn it the hard way.
Just an update.
My NO3 maintain at a constant level of 5ppm after I added 20 rummy noses....
My PO4 - 0 (the test kit seems to had turn bad. The powder I am suppose to add seems to have harden abit. I manage to dig out as required to perform the test but it ain't dissolving very well. Just add some K2HPO4 just to be save before I test again later.)
KH maintain at a steady 6 (after I added the Equilabrium)
PH 6.6 at lights off.
Lights still running at 6hrs from 6pm to 12 midnight.
I hv been using the so called 'beneficial bacteria', understanding that this would help control excessive ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and phosphorus and also improve water clarity. It also claims that it would minimise algae growth.
But i still don't fully understand the overall effect of this. So far i found that for my tanks, the water quality as in clearness and algae control is good without changing water for at least 4~5 mths. Plant growth is ok too. And the fishes and shrimps are healthy.
Am I right to say that this bacteria actually improve water 'quality' and if the nutrient level is done right, there is no need of changing water for a longer period say even for half a year??
Careful with the test kit...unless you test the test kit against standard stock solutions and found it to be good, I would be wary of the results. You do not use critters to increase NO3. At some point in time, the ammonia contributed from the critters will exceed the uptake threshold of plants if you keep adding them and then you get algae.Just an update.
My NO3 maintain at a constant level of 5ppm after I added 20 rummy noses....
My PO4 - 0 (the test kit seems to had turn bad
KH maintain at a steady 6 (after I added the Equilabrium)
PH 6.6 at lights off.
Lights still running at 6hrs from 6pm to 12 midnight.
PO4...same as above for accuracy.
Seachem Equilibrium does not increase KH but GH (Ca/Mg) and add Fe and some micros.
pH of 6.6? As long as the plants are growing without algae and pearling good your CO2 should be good as tested.
Increase the photoperiod to 10-12hrs...Want less issues go for less light and not less hours unless you do the high noon effect and lower intensity for the rest of the photoperiod.
Regards
Peter Gwee
Do you overstock your tank? Bacteria plays little role in a well run planted tank. Plants will always have the first crack at the ammonia. Grow plants well...focus on their needs.
Regards
Peter Gwee
Bacteria do compete for nutrients as well. So you could argue they help and they do remineralize the waste which is important.
I can go months without a water change and do with my non CO2 tanks.
If you have lower light, decent fish load and consistent feeding, dosing, you can get away with fewer water changes and have things look okay with CO2.
It's rather easy with non CO2 methods and water changes are to be avoided for months/years.
But will the tank look better and grow plants better with water changes? Yes. Folks can hit a sweet spot but we all tend to mess up at some point and need reset things.
Regards,
Tom Barr
www.BarrReport.com - get the information
Hi Peter,
I just switched over to MH. I find the photo period quite OK for me at the moment, no new algaes ever since I start monitoring the nutrients closely.
As for the addition of new fishes, it was because my tank had only 10-15 adults cardinals, 6-7 cardinal fry (bred in tank! yea!), 8 rummy nose with a couple of yamatos, Otos etc. I felt too little crits for my tank and thus the addition. I do not have the intention of depending them for nutrients but I will try to add less N and P as I increase my bio load.
Here is a pic of my tank (still under construction)...
PS: Please ignore the unsightly cable, pipes and the 2 meshes of moss :P
Careful with the test kit...unless you test the test kit against standard stock solutions and found it to be good, I would be wary of the results. You do not use critters to increase NO3. At some point in time, the ammonia contributed from the critters will exceed the uptake threshold of plants if you keep adding them and then you get algae.
PO4...same as above for accuracy.
Seachem Equilibrium does not increase KH but GH (Ca/Mg) and add Fe and some micros.
pH of 6.6? As long as the plants are growing without algae and pearling good your CO2 should be good as tested.
Increase the photoperiod to 10-12hrs...Want less issues go for less light and not less hours unless you do the high noon effect and lower intensity for the rest of the photoperiod.
Regards
Peter Gwee
Almost wanted to start a new thread, but heck, some of the advise here are pretty good.
ok, I have this dilemma.
We all know PUB uses chloromide in its waters and using these water to do a direct water change will wipe out the beneficial bacteria colonies.
I got 2 tanks - one 2ft, 15 gal tank and another 2.5ft cube, 59 gal tank.
The former is much mature, about 8 months and I have only done 2 water changes so far. It is pretty heavily planted and has much frogbits to absorb the nitrates, hence the water quality is still able to support shrimp breeding.
Water used to topup is carefully dechlorinated so as to avoid the destruction of BB. Shrimp breeding is an indicator is a reasonable level of water quality and I attributed this partly to the beneficial bacteria.
For the much newer 59gal tank, water topup is going to be much tedidous as I have to set aside more space to age water. I was comtemplating of using the tap water to do changes, but thinking of the benefits of BB, I have second thoughts.
So, how should I approach this problem? The 59gal tank is more for fishes and I am trying to mature it at the fastest rate possible.
Anyone?
Cheers,
Andrew
errr.... adding anti-chlorine?
turn OFF your filter, then do your water change, add anti chloramine/chlorine into new tap water, then turn your filter back on.
that way none of your biofilter bacteria in your filter is affected.
--
me: I just do it without turning off the filter, no effect whatsoever.
I always just add the dechloro as I fill the tank with the tap.
Never had an issue.
Goondoo,
I'd be very careful to trust those test kits.
If you are willing to calibrate them and make the chemical standards at the ranges that interest you, then you can have confidence.
Otherwise do not assume they are accurate, NO3 are worst than PO4.
Few folks are willing to do this though.......
The water change idea gets around that issue of test kits, with one exception, CO2.
I can do it with measuring CO2 but this is more of an art and something I have a lot or experience and time at, still, many use bubble rates with good success.
They wioill convert NH4 into NO2=> NO3, they do NOT do anything with PO4, a simple test will prove this to you, add some to a non planted tank without algae etc, no light etc.hpeter said: I hv been using the so called 'beneficial bacteria', understanding that this would help control excessive ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and phosphorus and also improve water clarity. It also claims that it would minimise algae growth.
See if the PO4 goes away when you add a filter on the tank.
It will not do anything to help prevent algae other than during the start up phase, but adding the mulm from an established gravel bed or squeeze the dirt out of a filter sponge is far superior to any bacteria in a bottle.
This is active live bacteria, much better than anything in a bottle.
Also, if you add eniough plants from the start, take care of their needs, then you also have no issues.
Plants do remove NO3/NH4/PO4, unlike bacteria which merely convert NH4=> NO3.
Most folks do not have a large colony of denitrrifyers, they need slightly anaerobic conditions and the plant roots aerate the gravel so they are not significant players(you can remove the plants and see for yourself)
Regards,
Tom Barr
Plantbrain,
To put it in simple words, plant heavily and I can forgo those beneficial bacteria for all I care and still attain good results?
Cheers,
Andrew
Yea, I just learned that.
There will be some cases whereby no NO3 tested when there should be. Sometimes, the colour changed just fade off as fast as 1 min after the test. So if you are looking somewhere else while doing the test, chances are you might miss the reading
Thanks for your advise Tom!
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