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Thread: NPK dry fert for orchids usable?

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    NPK dry fert for orchids usable?

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    Hi, wonder anyone use NPK dry fert for orchids for the tank. I am just not very sure of how to dose properly cause its different from those delicated fert. Any advise. Thanks!IMG-20161022-WA0009.jpgIMG-20161022-WA0009.jpg

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    Re: NPK dry fert for orchids usable?

    This is the blue powder, right? It has indicator dye in it - I do use it on terrestrial plants, especially outdoors but am not really keen to use it for fish. At typical aquarium hobbyist use rates, ferts don't cost that much? Maybe just buy a general fert and use that instead?

    If you do still wish to give it a try, why not start at low doses based on observing plant deficiencies? There's a "duckweed index" thing used by some fishkeepers - google "duckweed index UKAPS". Darrel (dw1305 on many forums) talks about it often. Shouldn't be hard to find some info on the web.

    Basically, it supposes nutrients get used up in order of N, then K, then P or Mg, then others. When you see signs of deficiency - slowed growth, yellowing leaves, etc, dose very lightly in that order (N first, then K, etc), with a one day wait between doses to see if the plants respond (green up, regain growth rates). If plants respond, then your deficiency is fixed and you can stop dosing. Many floating plants respond fast and are dissolved CO2 independent, so they're good as indicator species. It's a very crude method and doesn't solve all problems, but it works for many people who just need to keep plants growing while minimising the effect of ferts on livestock.

    People working with only fully aquatic plants dose based on deficiency too - but it can get really technical, e.g. using specific plants that show specific deficiencies in different ways - to indicate very precisely what nutrient needs dosing. Not your thing if you're just whacking NPK 20:20:20, I guess.

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    Re: NPK dry fert for orchids usable?

    Paiseh about wall of text, I TLDR for you:


    • I don't use that orchid fert for fish. I'd rather not. Cause got blue dye.
    • However, I don't think it's dangerous in low doses.
    • If you do try, start low, and watch how the plants react to it. For reference, Tom Barr's non-CO2 method says to dose 1/8 teaspoon of KNO3 (13-0-44), and 1/32 teaspoon of KH2PO4 (0-52-34) for 75 litres once a week. Yours is 20-20-20, so probably for 75 litres, just dose 1/8 teaspoon and see how the plants react. Or start with even lower, to be safe (after all, you don't know if your fert is safe for livestock).
    • On top of that, he supplies micro nutrients (trace ferts) through substrate or Seachem Equilibrium. Your orchid fert provides only macro NPK. So if your plants still have deficiency, can dose some trace too.


    Good luck! If you run into algae problems, it's all part of the DIY process! Embrace and enjoy!

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    Re: NPK dry fert for orchids usable?

    Quote Originally Posted by boofeng View Post
    Paiseh about wall of text, I TLDR for you:


    • I don't use that orchid fert for fish. I'd rather not. Cause got blue dye.
    • However, I don't think it's dangerous in low doses.
    • If you do try, start low, and watch how the plants react to it. For reference, Tom Barr's non-CO2 method says to dose 1/8 teaspoon of KNO3 (13-0-44), and 1/32 teaspoon of KH2PO4 (0-52-34) for 75 litres once a week. Yours is 20-20-20, so probably for 75 litres, just dose 1/8 teaspoon and see how the plants react. Or start with even lower, to be safe (after all, you don't know if your fert is safe for livestock).
    • On top of that, he supplies micro nutrients (trace ferts) through substrate or Seachem Equilibrium. Your orchid fert provides only macro NPK. So if your plants still have deficiency, can dose some trace too.


    Good luck! If you run into algae problems, it's all part of the DIY process! Embrace and enjoy!
    Hi boofeng,

    Thanks for your respond. Yes, you are spot on on the blue fert. I happened to have this and was wondering if i can use it as a all in 1 for the plants. The plants are already having Seachem Flourish (bi-weekly) and Excel (daily). Its not really about the cost but i am not keen to have so many bottles at home. My tank is small and only 12.5 litres. I have limited spaces. Initially i am only wanting to get a low tech tank without dosing anything until now gotten seachem fertz...

    I have difficulty understanding the 21-21-21. Is it always NPK sequence in percent or gram or milligram? How do you know to use 1/8 teaspoon for 75 litres? And whats the amount the plant generally need?

    As in Seachem does say 5ml per 200l, i can do calculation on how to dose. but for dry fert i am clueless. Appreciate if you can help. Thanks!

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    Re: NPK dry fert for orchids usable?

    Ah, I see. Yes the three numbers is always NPK in sequence, and they are in per cent.

    Tank fertilisation is too cheem for me to give advice on. I have never in my life kept a planted tank using all the advanced fertilisation methods. So I'm just theory crafting and you can't really take my advice seriously. I do plant almost all my tanks, but I take a trial and error and plant deficiency approach. And plants aren't my main focus anyway - it's always the fish first, for me.

    I think dosing your orchid ferts along with Flourish and Excel would work, in theory. Orchid ferts supply macro nutrients, Flourish supplies micro nutrients. You just have to figure out how much to dose and how often. And note that your orchid ferts are much higher in P than the usual aquarium dry fert mixes, so if you run into issues, look into whether high phosphate is the cause.

    So, about dosing. That 1/8 teaspoon for 75 litres is because I checked Tom Barr's non-CO2 method (which I linked to in one of my earlier posts), and I trust Tom Barr, who is an expert on planted tanks (note: I realise he did say 2-3 times more with Excel). Why don't you read that thread, because Tom Barr probably explains it far better than I can do?

    However, if you want to avoid technical stuff, just trial and error. I've been doing that for years and enjoying my tanks tremendously. Low tech tanks are a lot more forgiving than high tech ones. Your tank probably won't turn into algae central overnight (you're also dosing Excel, which has an anti-algae effect too).

    Or if you want to get technical, I think there are lots of knowledgeable people here on AQ who can help you.

    Good luck!

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    Re: NPK dry fert for orchids usable?

    Quote Originally Posted by boofeng View Post
    Ah, I see. Yes the three numbers is always NPK in sequence, and they are in per cent.

    Tank fertilisation is too cheem for me to give advice on. I have never in my life kept a planted tank using all the advanced fertilisation methods. So I'm just theory crafting and you can't really take my advice seriously. I do plant almost all my tanks, but I take a trial and error and plant deficiency approach. And plants aren't my main focus anyway - it's always the fish first, for me.

    I think dosing your orchid ferts along with Flourish and Excel would work, in theory. Orchid ferts supply macro nutrients, Flourish supplies micro nutrients. You just have to figure out how much to dose and how often. And note that your orchid ferts are much higher in P than the usual aquarium dry fert mixes, so if you run into issues, look into whether high phosphate is the cause.

    So, about dosing. That 1/8 teaspoon for 75 litres is because I checked Tom Barr's non-CO2 method (which I linked to in one of my earlier posts), and I trust Tom Barr, who is an expert on planted tanks (note: I realise he did say 2-3 times more with Excel). Why don't you read that thread, because Tom Barr probably explains it far better than I can do?

    However, if you want to avoid technical stuff, just trial and error. I've been doing that for years and enjoying my tanks tremendously. Low tech tanks are a lot more forgiving than high tech ones. Your tank probably won't turn into algae central overnight (you're also dosing Excel, which has an anti-algae effect too).

    Or if you want to get technical, I think there are lots of knowledgeable people here on AQ who can help you.

    Good luck!
    Hi boofeng, thanks for sharing. I shall try to read up more on the fertilization. Hope all works well!

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    Talking Re: NPK dry fert for orchids usable?

    Quote Originally Posted by boofeng View Post
    Paiseh about wall of text, I TLDR for you:


    • I don't use that orchid fert for fish. I'd rather not. Cause got blue dye.
    • However, I don't think it's dangerous in low doses.
    • If you do try, start low, and watch how the plants react to it. For reference, Tom Barr's non-CO2 method says to dose 1/8 teaspoon of KNO3 (13-0-44), and 1/32 teaspoon of KH2PO4 (0-52-34) for 75 litres once a week. Yours is 20-20-20, so probably for 75 litres, just dose 1/8 teaspoon and see how the plants react. Or start with even lower, to be safe (after all, you don't know if your fert is safe for livestock).
    • On top of that, he supplies micro nutrients (trace ferts) through substrate or Seachem Equilibrium. Your orchid fert provides only macro NPK. So if your plants still have deficiency, can dose some trace too.


    Good luck! If you run into algae problems, it's all part of the DIY process! Embrace and enjoy!
    Hi boofeng,

    I read up some articles and relook at your post. U mention KNO3 is (NPK13-0-44) and KH2PO4 (NPK 0-52-34).
    For a 75 litre tank, total NPK tom used weekly i calculated is 1/8*(13-0-44) + 1/32*(0-52-34) = (1.625-1.625-6.5625). Correct?

    I am trying to relate to 21-21-21 by understanding the math behind. Lastly, how many grams is 21-21-21. Sorry i wasnt attentive during chemistry lesson.

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    Re: NPK dry fert for orchids usable?

    Sorry missed replying this for a while.

    21-21-21 is usually percentage by weight. So in 1 kg of 21-21-21 fertilizer, there will be 210 grams of Nitrogen (independent of whether it's in nitrate or urea or whatever), 210 grams of Phosphorus, and 210 grams of Potassium (Kalium).

    Re: your calculations, yes that tells you that if you can find a 3-3-13 fertilizer (I multiplied your numbers by two, so just use half of 1/8 teaspoon) it would be similar to Tom Barr's approach in macro-nutrient composition. But it's not a hard figure - just a ballpark thing. Every tank is different and some variation should be okay? I think? Haha. We're not running labs here! :P

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    Re: NPK dry fert for orchids usable?

    Quote Originally Posted by boofeng View Post
    Sorry missed replying this for a while.

    21-21-21 is usually percentage by weight. So in 1 kg of 21-21-21 fertilizer, there will be 210 grams of Nitrogen (independent of whether it's in nitrate or urea or whatever), 210 grams of Phosphorus, and 210 grams of Potassium (Kalium).

    Re: your calculations, yes that tells you that if you can find a 3-3-13 fertilizer (I multiplied your numbers by two, so just use half of 1/8 teaspoon) it would be similar to Tom Barr's approach in macro-nutrient composition. But it's not a hard figure - just a ballpark thing. Every tank is different and some variation should be okay? I think? Haha. We're not running labs here! :P
    Noted! Thanks for all your time and patience!

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