Problem Setting up a 2 ft Marine Tank - Please help me

**DragonGoby** · 17th Apr 2002, 19:39

AHHHH! There you go - pouring the whole botle of bacteria in? Sad to admit, I just committed the same mistake on my 4-footer! Put in 1/3 of the bottle, and 6 hours later everything started frothing up, but nothing died except my scopas tang.

Oxygen starvation - the poor guy was gasping and lying on the sand. As the bacteria reproduce they take up loads and loads of oxygen and I guess the organisms on your rocks died, causing another cycle of oxygen starvation. I can't imagine what would've happened if I had put in the whole bottle - and the total volume in the system was 4-foot plus another 4-foot sump!

I agree with Nautilus' steps - follow them and you can't go very wrong. Except try to use RO/DI water when first filling your tank. If this can't be done, add salt and water on Day 1, run powerhead, and add a bag of a mixture of activated carbon and PhosGuard. The resins and carbon will eliminate most of the tapwater impurities (DI/RO water and equipment are rather expensive ... so I use tapwater lah), and will allow you to turn on the lights for a few hours each day to prevent any macroalgae present from dying off, and yet preventing diatom outbreaks.

Patience, patience, patience, my friend!

I waited a whole 5 weeks before putting my first mushroom in. Just to make sure.

**Spiff** · 17th Apr 2002, 19:47

i think u r running things abit too fast.....slow down. let ur water stablize be4 doing anything. did u check ur water parameters be4 adding ur live rock? if possible try to get some sand from the other members living near u. this can help jump start the cycling process

**Marine** · 17th Apr 2002, 22:05

Thanks guy for replying and the knowledge that you guys have provided. Really appreciate it.

I have just bought a skimmer and is running it. Hope this work. Oh ya, also bought ONE piece of live rock (weigh about 5 kg) to provide cover for my small powerhead at the tank corner. And also at the same time add 10 cup full of bacteria to the tank.

Basically, to round up what is in my tank now.
1. tank with salt water already running for 3 days
2. 2 hermit crabs (already 3 days in the tank)
3. one piece of live rock (weigh 5 kg) just put in today.
4. 3 power head running to create water circulation and current
5. surface skimmer to skim off surface dirt
6. protein skimmer to ?

Next step, I will be adding another 3 to 4 kg of live rock probably next thur/ fri.

Then, one more week later will add some soft corals

then, one more week later after adding soft corals, I will add maximum 2 fishes in the tank (probably damsel and crown)

Please correct my steps if I made another mistake.

Thank

**Spiff** · 17th Apr 2002, 22:19

dun add any live stock for another month. definately no corals
skip the damsel...it will be hell in ur tank.dun add too much bacteria too.

**nautilus** · 17th Apr 2002, 22:51

ivan,

Wow...that's still too fast. I agree with spiff, no more lifestock for at least a month. As for the bacteria, you can stop adding them already. The amount present in your system should be sufficient for the cycling process. There is NO short cut way in marine aquariums. Cycling is essential to create a well balanced ecosystem that's close to a reef habitat. Rush it and the whole system will crash and you'll invariably spend more replenishing your lifestock and rebuilding your tank instead of advancing your tank or upgrading the equipment. Patience is a virtue....esp in marine aquarium...heheh...

Naut

**kelstorm** · 18th Apr 2002, 00:45

Ivan.. first thing.. TOO ANXIOUS TO SETUP = SYSTEM CRASHED!!!... for my 4ft, i cycled my tank for 6 weeks, adding 3 batches of LR in between b4 i got myself any lifestock..
u can either follow those methods by dragongoby, nautilus or even me.... take your time.. and u will enjoy it better... mind u.. once it started off at the right key.. u are more than half way to success... the above posts by them is good.. try to follow.. resist temptation to add any more livestock.. coz they will not be able to take it.. u are merely wasting your $$$... stop going to farms or any LFS for the next few weeks.. and let the tank stabilise... [

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**NinjaFly** · 18th Apr 2002, 10:55

Well, I am also the impatient type.
I did my freshwater tank ...everything within 1-2 days.
But surprisingly, most of my fish did survive.

Quite interested in the marine tank, but after seeing Ivan's experience, kind of scared leh. The freshwater tank is already quite costly. Can't imagine the $$$ that is going to spend on a marine tank.

BTW, where do you pple get the marine fish? I don't see them in the normal LFS.

Anyone can gimme a estimated price to setup a reasonable marine tank? Kel/Ivan?

**kelstorm** · 18th Apr 2002, 12:36

Quite interested in the marine tank, but after seeing Ivan's experience, kind of scared leh. The freshwater tank is already quite costly. Can't imagine the $$$ that is going to spend on a marine tank.

BTW, where do you pple get the marine fish? I don't see them in the normal LFS.

Anyone can gimme a estimated price to setup a reasonable marine tank? Kel/Ivan?
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what size of tank u talking abt... the type of equipment matters alot too.. to the price that is.. but it is definitely abt 2-3 times the initial cost to do the set up.. there are only a few lfs selling marine fishes apart from those FF.... they can be located in Yishun central, Hong leong building in the west and another one in Balestier..[

] [

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u can take a look at the marine side posts.. there is a lot of similar questions.. take a look and any questions u dun understand, just post again.. we try to help again.[

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Yes.. feel the force of the dark side.. hehehe[

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**Marine** · 18th Apr 2002, 18:41

The tank is doing fine now with just only One 5 kg Live rock. I can see the worm and micro-organism are enjoying themselves wandering about the tank.

My 2nd batch of Live rock will be next thur or Fri. Anyone keen to join me next week at HL ? (er...the 3rd batch of Live rock will be week after next the 2nd batch.) Comment if you think can't work. Thanks

Well, i think about $350 you can run a 2ft Marine tank. But suggest you get those necessary equipement that can support 4ft tank for future upgrading.[

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**nautilus** · 18th Apr 2002, 20:46

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Well, I am also the impatient type.
I did my freshwater tank ...everything within 1-2 days.
But surprisingly, most of my fish did survive.
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Freshwater fishes are less sensitive to the water and their environment as compared to saltwater fishes. It has been frequently said that the reef habitat is supposedly the most stable environment on earth. You can clearly see how much science has gone into saltwater aquarium equipment to acheive this.

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Quite interested in the marine tank, but after seeing Ivan's experience, kind of scared leh. The freshwater tank is already quite costly. Can't imagine the $$$ that is going to spend on a marine tank.
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Ivan failed because he was too rushed in the setup process. If you take things slow and steady, do the right things and don't do anything stupid, you should be able to enjoy a nice marine aquarium in your house too.

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BTW, where do you pple get the marine fish? I don't see them in the normal LFS.
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There are lots of aquariums selling marine fishes around. Check out the LFS directory in aquatic realms at www.maxdax.com/aquaticrealms to find out more.

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Anyone can gimme a estimated price to setup a reasonable marine tank?
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This will all depend on the size of your tank, which filtration system you will be using and also the priorities that you give when purchasing equipment. You can set up a 3 ft on a shoestring budget of between 500 to a thousand or if you're rich enough, spend thousands on it. Things like metal halide lamps, chiller, good protein skimmer, etc don't come cheap, and it's only the tip of the iceburg as we have not even mentioned about the livestock yet. The sky's the limit for marine aquariums.

If you want something really cheap, you can try a 2 ft with these:
1) 2ft tank - $20
2) salt - $15
3) light - $40
4) canister filter - $75
5) sand - $15
6) powerhead - $20
7) hydrometer - $5

skimmer - $25

set aside another $100 for livestock/live rocks+miscelleneous items and you can have a marine aquarium for about $300-400.

Naut

**NinjaFly** · 19th Apr 2002, 15:49

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If you want something really cheap, you can try a 2 ft with these:
1) 2ft tank - $20
2) salt - $15
3) light - $40
4) canister filter - $75
5) sand - $15
6) powerhead - $20
7) hydrometer - $5

skimmer - $25

set aside another $100 for livestock/live rocks+miscelleneous items and you can have a marine aquarium for about $300-400.
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Arrhhh!!! Just visited the LFS at Bukit Timah Shopping Center! Now I am really very tempted to setup one marine tank. But the way the owner describe, it sounds so easy to setup a marine tank. There are at least 4 marine tanks that are smaller than 2ft! He says that the maintaneance of a marine tank is so much easier as compared to a freshwater tank. BTW, the owner says those marine fish cost only $2-5... Consider that cheap?

BTW, if I am using a overhead filter, is it advisable to use it for marine tanks or are those canister filter + powerhead necessary?

~~~~~~~ I am beginning to feel the power of the dark force ~~~~~~~~~~
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**kelstorm** · 19th Apr 2002, 16:43

ninjafly, what is the size tank. u talking abt? like some of the forumers had mentioned(or was it i??).. go for the biggest tank u can afford.. then the equipment.. coz the bigger the tank (u can keep more stuff lah...).. the easier the maintenance.. for less than 2ft.. what peanuts(no pun intended) can u keep? do the livestock a favour.. imagine for FW; keeping a discus in a 1ft tank..if it is bare ok.. but with marine.. bare tank.. not nice lah..
price of fishes.. varies from place to place.. and the species as well.. u never mentioned the species.. so very difficult to say whether cheap or not.. damsels can get as low as $1 each..
as for filtration, honestly, i have never seen one with overhead filter.. canister yes.. mostly, ppl would go for either sump, refugium or canister... dun forget your protein skimmer... not surface skimmer.. they work differently...[

] any more queries.. just post.. can only help u in general based on the questions....

**IcecruncherZ** · 19th Apr 2002, 18:58

Ninjafly - Email or add me to ICQ or whatever I need to tell you somethings about the shop. Not posting here cos might get sued or dunno what.

My email can be found under the profiles

Otherwise use my email to add my to your ICQ list

**NinjaFly** · 19th Apr 2002, 22:27

Hi Kel .. I only have a 1.5ft tank and a 2ft tank at home. Thinking of converting the 2ft tank into marine. Actually, I am thinking of adding only a few fish to the tank. Not too many.. too many fish will definitely spoil the ecosystem and breaks the tank down.

Currently me dun want to spend another sum of money to get a tank bigger than 2ft coz no space to put already lar. Therefore, I am eyeing on my 2ft tank now...

BTW, since I am not too familiar with filters. Therefore, I am a bit lost when anyone mention names like "sump, refugium or canister".

I have seen internal, external filters before but are those mentioned above different brands of internal filters or are they something else?

**kelstorm** · 19th Apr 2002, 23:17

BTW, since I am not too familiar with filters. Therefore, I am a bit lost when anyone mention names like &quot;sump, refugium or canister&quot;.

I have seen internal, external filters before but are those mentioned above different brands of internal filters or are they something else?
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those are different type of filtration methods.. not brands or something along that line.. [

] it is ok.. when i started out.. i was like u.. and i have no one to turn to.. thus i bought books to read.. well, i would recommend the same to u.. do get a book and it will definately serve u well and save u tons of money later. at least.. from the book.. u be able to know besides the different terms we used here.. u will get the basic knowledge of setting up one... btw, it is very different from FW... [

] i would be more than glad to help you once u have more queries...

well.. in fact, i often encourage ppl to read up first.. ie.. to get basic knowledge of keeping the system viable first.. so that they can help themselves by saving tons of $$ by making less mistakes... [

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**nautilus** · 19th Apr 2002, 23:20

ninjafly,

I agree with what kel said. A 2 feet is about the bare minimum for a marine tank that one should go. A bigger tank will have more allowances for errors by acting as a buffer if say the water chemistry is thrown off balance due to additives or deaths, etc. Furthermore, certain fishes(eg. some tangs) do not do well at all in small tanks, even in 2 ft tanks. They'll break out in ich or some other stress related disease if they are immersed in a hostile environment. Also, the tank would look pretty cramped as people have always perceived marine fishes to live around vast amount of water. The prove is in the beauty of larger marine aquariums as compared to smaller ones. We have to face the fact that the complexities of the processes occuring in a marine aquarium simply does not allow us to set up a tiny aquarium with long term tangible success. It's unlike freshwater aquariums where small fish bowls have been known to house guppies or small fishes without any problems.

So far, i've not seen anybody using an overhead filter for use in a marine aquarium. Although it is possible to do so, i don't think it is recommended. It is always better to follow the methods of experienced aquarists so as to ensure that your future system works correctly. Many shops advocate the use of a canister filter. I would think that it is a good stepping stone for beginner aquarists as the setup is simple and its maintainance is straightforward. Once you've learnt more about this hobby, you can then switch to an overflow+sump system which yields better results. Well you could even jump straight into setting up a sump system provided if you had done lots of research before hand. IMO, a sump/refugium is beneficial to the aquarium in a variety of ways and it is definitely recommended.

You could have a look at the prices at different aquariums over the island. The price for a normal clown/damsel is about a dollar each. Some shops sell them at $2 but the fishes may be in a better condition than the cheap ones. The rule of the game is simple : scout around for the nicest/healthiest fish even if the price differs by a dollar or two. No point buying a fish only to have it dying the next day rite?

Naut

**Marine** · 20th Apr 2002, 16:48

Very agree with Naut & Kel, bigger the tank, smaller the variatons in any conditions and more room for the fishes to run about and many more things you can establish with a bigger tank. Well, for me, I got no choice. I wanted very much a bigger tank (more than 4 ft) but I will be shifting house soon (within the next 3 years). So really painful to do shifting with big tank.

Hence, I'm now setting up a 2 ft marine tank to quench my Marine passion. Though 2 ft is very small but I'm real satisfied at the moment as compare to my initial 1 ft tank. (actually my wife control me not to have big tank now, she only allowed me to have 4 ft tank after we shifted to a new place....[

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By the way, I just went to Hong Leong this afternoon and realised that the shop owner have just set up a 2 ft tank...quite nicely done with bare minimum equipment. Ninajafly, you may wish to take a look and copy exactly what equipment needed for your coming Marine tank.

Well, as for me. I have all the necessary equipment (see initially e.mail)...just bought a protein skimmer. So what I short of now is a chiller. But don't intent to buy now until I upgrade to a bigger tank or rather I should say, when I shifted house then I get a chiller.

By the way, Hong Leong just arrived some beautiful Live rock. Just added abother piece of Live rock (4.5 kg) to my tank. So far, in total, I have only 2 piece of Live rock now. Will get another 2 more small Live rock to complete landscaping somewhere next week. Then, let the water stabilise for awhile before putting some hardy corals.

**kelstorm** · 20th Apr 2002, 18:09

Ivan.. do things slowly.. if not, u might just risk having another failure again.. (touchwood)... and dun get too much rocks.. coz corals come with them too.. dun forget that.. [:

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