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Thread: Advise on substrate

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    Advise on substrate - Onyx Sand

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    Hi, seeking advise on different subtrates....

    Intending to have high light plants, fish and shrimps...please advise on suitable substrates for the above config.

    Originally intended to get dennerle base fert with lapis sand, then heard that it may not ba able to support high demand plants like toninas, lotus, didiplis diandra, etc types of plants as they require rich base.

    So I questioned ADA soils...then was told that shrimps would not survive as the PH may be too low, although the plants will thrive in them.

    What other options are available for this compromise? What are some of the experiences the advanced members have...able to share? Thanks.
    Last edited by Panther; 2nd Jul 2005 at 22:45.

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    Hi here is a discussion on shrimp tanks using ADA soil. http://www.petfrd.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16602 . I don think there will be problem keeping shrimps with ADA soil when your tank is well established. I have seen tanks which uses ADA soil with beautiful shrimps.
    Best Regards
    YongHua

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    hi there, actually i think all the hype and misconceptions that ADA is incompatible with shrimps are nonsense. i have shrimps doing extremely well in my ada soil. my Ph is below 6 so i think the main thing is to condition ur shrimps before adding them in. Therefore, go ahead with the ada soil if u have the $$$ to blow.

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    Exclamation Onyx Sand

    Hi, can anyone share the pros and cons of this substrate? Checked the past posts on onyx sand but doesn't seems to have much discussion on it's properties. Is this a good substrate to use?

    Heard it is similar to ADA soil as in it already has nutrients and thus no need to add base fert and it's also cheaper. I was considering between ADAAquasoil and lapis+base fert initially...then found out about this substrate which seems to be best of both worlds....cheap price and rich substrate.

    Please advise, Thanks.

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    hmm... if I recall correctly, Loupgarou used Onyx sand the last time. Perhaps you can check with him.

    Cheers,
    I have dwarf cichlids in my tanks! Do you?

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    Get something that does not turn to mush and makes measuring CO2 easier (inert) would be my advice. Nutrients are best supplied through the water column but CO2 is the critical thing if you go highlight or CO2 enriched methods. Nothing works well if the CO2 is not well taken care of.

    Regards
    Peter Gwee

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterGwee
    Get something that does not turn to mush and makes measuring CO2 easier (inert) would be my advice. Nutrients are best supplied through the water column but CO2 is the critical thing if you go highlight or CO2 enriched methods. Nothing works well if the CO2 is not well taken care of.

    Regards
    Peter Gwee
    Hi Peter,

    I'll get a co2 tank for the highlight plants. Will the onyx sand turn to mush?
    The packaging actually says better to wash before use...so how to put mush in tank?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterGwee
    Get something that does not turn to mush and makes measuring CO2 easier (inert) would be my advice. Nutrients are best supplied through the water column but CO2 is the critical thing if you go highlight or CO2 enriched methods. Nothing works well if the CO2 is not well taken care of.

    Regards
    Peter Gwee
    Thanks benny, will check with him. Another question i have though is seems more people are using seachem fluorite than onyx sand...wonder why so?

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    Onyx sand/Flourite is good ime and does not have the issue of turning into mush nor kicks out loads of dirt (JBL basefert top off with Lapis sand) which is a big issue. Get some ground peat and mulm (dirt from filter..those that settle at the bottom...this is important) and add it to the very bottom of the tank before capping it off with Onyx sand or flourite.

    Get the CO2 working well first before you blast the tank with loads of light. Remember to plant heavily (pack to the gills) and you should not have much issues.

    Regards
    Peter Gwee

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    Thanks Pete, so i misunderstood the first reply.
    Ok, will keep in mind to check the co2...but with co2 and little light, would the plants be able to photosynthesize properly and will it be inviting an algae attack?

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    Lower light about 2w/g is good as it lowers the plants needs on both CO2 and nutrients. More wiggle room for error and even if things crash due to folks not keeping up on things, the amount of damage is lesser as oppose to a high light tank. Note that as long as the nutrients are not limiting, good stable CO2 (30ppm..do account for some errors in measurements..about 5-8ppm or so) and enough light, the plants do mighty well.

    Regards
    Peter Gwee

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    the reason why onyx sand ain't so popular cos only petmart carries it and doesn't really advertise it I think.

    just a matter of publicity, you can use onyx. (not the sand version). its dark slate grey.

    onyx has the potential to raise kh initially.(for the first couple of months).

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    Quote Originally Posted by loupgarou
    the reason why onyx sand ain't so popular cos only petmart carries it and doesn't really advertise it I think.

    just a matter of publicity, you can use onyx. (not the sand version). its dark slate grey.

    onyx has the potential to raise kh initially.(for the first couple of months).
    Hi Chris,

    I saw the onyx...the granules seems big (1cm)...isn't this difficult for planted tank? Can it hold on to small foreground plants like glosso, HC, hairgrass, tennelus, etc? Actually like the slate grey colour better, but due to this factor, thought better get the sand version instead...can advise? Thanks.

    Raising KH will not be too much an issue right? Do not intend to have fauna till at least 1 month after the plants have settled in...think this would be better right?

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    is it bigger than fluorite? I haven't actually looked at it . there should be one that is same size as flourite..
    (ie; no more than 4mm)

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    Quote Originally Posted by loupgarou
    is it bigger than fluorite? I haven't actually looked at it . there should be one that is same size as flourite..
    (ie; no more than 4mm)
    I've not actually seen fluorite, but the only 2 types I saw was the brown sand version and this bigger pieces (grey) ones at NA. Was told by Chan there's only these 2 types in his shop.

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    In my experience, i think shrimps like yamato can take low ph rather well.

    I had once overdosed CO2 in a 2ft and without realising, killed 2 batches of fishes inside. But the 5 yamato are stilll lively and kicking.
    人的一生﹐ 全靠奮斗﹐ 唯有奮斗﹐ 才能成功

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    Dear frens,

    Found the black/grey onyx sand. Got 5 packs of it for my 4x1.5x1.5 tank.

    Questions:
    1. After putting into the tank, the height shd be abt 1.5". Is this sufficient?If not sufficient, I'm actually thinking of using lapis below the onyx (at back part of tank) to elavate the height of the onyx...advisable? Saw Philip (Wild Ginger) doing it to his 3ft setup.

    2.1. Is base fert necessary to be added? What i think is no need coz it's abt the same as ADA aquasoil.

    2.2 But if I use lapis underneath to elavate the onyx, do I need to put base fert under the lapis? (Thinking of planting vallis or rotalas behind, will probably have a lotus somewhere too).

    3. Do you usually wash the sand before use? I was advised by Chan that it is not necessary as there's fertilizer in the sand, so use direct. But the instructions on the packet says that though it is pre-washed, wash it before use. I'm confused.

    Thanks and best regards.

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    don't mix it up, if you mix it up, you'll never be able to resell it, some more, white lapis will come up when you uproot the tank.

    suggest if you want to mix with anything to mix with ada amazonia (the black one, or is that africana).

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    Quote Originally Posted by loupgarou
    don't mix it up, if you mix it up, you'll never be able to resell it, some more, white lapis will come up when you uproot the tank.

    suggest if you want to mix with anything to mix with ada amazonia (the black one, or is that africana).
    No... I discourage that... Onyx goes haywire with peat... and ADA soil contains lots of peat.

    I am speaking from experience... ... dun try.

    BC

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    Quote Originally Posted by loupgarou
    don't mix it up, if you mix it up, you'll never be able to resell it, some more, white lapis will come up when you uproot the tank.

    suggest if you want to mix with anything to mix with ada amazonia (the black one, or is that africana).
    Chris,

    So if I just leave it, guess it shd do fine too right? And do you actually wah it before use or add base fert?

    I only realise now you live near redhill, I'm at tiong bahru...nearby to get help and advise

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