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Thread: Any idea why local planted LFS can't thrive???

  1. #1
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    Any idea why local planted LFS can't thrive???

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    With Gratiola downsizing it's shopfront, it seems like there are going to be fewer and fewer shops to visit.

    What I mean is, LFS that focus on either planted tanks and or planted tank associated fishes (I hope you guys get what I mean).
    Hence I am not refering to Arowana/Discus shops as I have no idea about them.

    I feel that its a real pity and I wonder why.. or what, as a fellow hobbyists can do about it?

  2. #2
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    Market not big enough?
    Buyers too cheapo?
    Competition by home breeders/growers?
    Competition by pao-kah-liao low price shops?
    High overheads?
    Failure to cultivate a maturing market?

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    Truthfully I don't think Singapore can substain a large number of LFSes, especially plant-related.

    You buy the plants initially, then you start growing them and you have a good supply. Why buy anymore after that?

    Substrates take years to deplete. We mostly use dirt-cheap KNO3 and KH2PO4 as fertilisation... how many of us here actually buy commercial fertilisers like Dupla, ADA, Dennerle, etc on a regular basis? My first purchase of KNO3 and KH2PO4 from last year... up till now there's still half a bottle left of KNO3 and KH2PO4 looks like it has never been used.

    Probably the electricity bill too... as well as initial startup costs and the lack of a big market. Well this is just my teenager opinion

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    Ever wonder in HK, with a population of around 6.9M, they can have a Tung Choi Street?

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    Singaporeans are spolit for choice be it on the local or oversea market.
    Nicholas

    Newbie en el cichlid enano

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    IMO,

    1. We are very far from a mature market for planted scene. We do not have a big enough group of people who "play" plants, trying new species or rescaping with new ones.

    Futhermore, how many of us here can appreciate a $20/stem rare plant in Singapore? $20/8cm-stem plants are considered mid range, and can be found in the tung choi street. A HK shop can easily substain the high rents by just selling in such manner.

    Here in Singapore, 99% who visit a lfs goes for $1/pot with 8-stems plants. The internet community seems large, but it probably made up the 1% of the entire market. And among this 1%, you find only 1% of them pays for higher value plants.

    Nobody finds it profitable to ship in and sell the plants here. With lesser new things to try, hobbyists starts to lose interest, business goes back to the cheap stuff and the shop cannot substain on it.

    2. Most big spenders buy fishes, not plants.

    3. Plants are available at too cheap price.

    4. Some shops selling at too cheap rate, equipments or live stock, killing others who cannot put up a fight.


    The way we apply soil, fertilizer here among the internet community are base on the education and discussion here. It does not reflect how the real market do it, so, not true to assume this way. There are actually big group of people using ADA, Dennerle, TMG etc, but most may not have touch a Internet forum before.

    If all of us use cheapo fertilizer which $8 last us 1year, the shop earns your $2 at january and waits til the next year before he MIGHT have a chance to earn another $2 from you. If we start with $1/pot 8 stems and starts to supply propagate til it fills up our 4ft tank, the farm will soon close as well.

    What can we do? Support them loh! The few popular shops that I can think of are eg. Fuwo, ecoculture, colorful aquarium, na etc.
    Last edited by lorba; 24th Aug 2005 at 20:30.
    人的一生﹐ 全靠奮斗﹐ 唯有奮斗﹐ 才能成功

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    Quote Originally Posted by yorky
    Ever wonder in HK, with a population of around 6.9M, they can have a Tung Choi Street?

    Sin only has a population of 3+M.

    in HKG most of the plants and fishes are from Chinese farms which i guess are much more cheaper compared to local farms or even from Malaysia.
    their selling prices in their LFS are also rather higher too compare to SIn, therefore profits margin are much higher.

    guess it all boils down to cost, high cost, low seling price + low demand + long hours = not a good idea to stay in bussiness.

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    Gratiola izn't the first victim and probably won't be the last.
    Over the years there several casualties I can think of... maybe the old timers can remember more.

    • Crowntol (near racecourse road)
    • Aquaplantas (Alexandra (2nd Singapore importer of Tropica plants)
    • Plantas aquaticas (horne rd)
    • Karin's shop in bedok market (Dun remember what name)
    • this place in Kovan long time ago even before any internet forum come of being.. "Oki" or something like that (1st Tropica importer)


    Nevertheless, there are several successful ones Lorba mentioned already. There are others he missed: Bioplast, Samyick, Keongseong, Heisenberg (who I believed has moved away from plants), etc. There are lessons from the failures and successes. One of which is that the successful ones do not depend on selling plants as main source of income (other than Teo's, but they are importer/exporter and do not depend on retail). If the plant is rare, you probably have much to sell anyway, vice versa.

    Dun blame the market. It is actually much bigger than it was 10 years ago. Then, I have difficulties find a shop that sell plants other than the hydrilla or cabomba.

    Dun blame the forums. It helped spread the interest, therefore increasing the market size.

    IMHO.

    ck

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    Frankly speaking Gratiola is a good place to sit down and chit chat with fellow planted people but it doesn't have much things there. When i went there about 3 weeks (my first time) ago, i really like the place becos it's very different from other traditional LFSs and you feel very comfortable there partly becos of the friendly young boss there. But that's about it!! There's so many planted tank aquascape and they don't have much plant related accessories.

    I find that they didn't make good use of the space to create income for themselves. Crowntol and aquaplanters made the same mistake as well. They focus too much on project work. Biotope is very much better but i feel that they still don't have enough accessories to make it a "happening" place to check things out unlike NA or clementi. The varieties of fishes that they have is quite ok though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mervin
    Sin only has a population of 3+M.

    guess it all boils down to cost, high cost, low seling price + low demand + long hours = not a good idea to stay in bussiness.
    Mervin, Singapore has a population of 4.3+M according to statistics.
    So we are not really that small leh.
    But I do agree with your reasons why its not good idea to stay in business.

    Lorba, even though most 'big spenders are fish buyers', the fish shops selling non-big fish don't really thrive too.
    However what you mentioned below is sad but very true.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorba
    If all of us use cheapo fertilizer which $8 last us 1year, the shop earns your $2 at january and waits til the next year before he MIGHT have a chance to earn another $2 from you. If we start with $1/pot 8 stems and starts to supply propagate til it fills up our 4ft tank, the farm will soon close as well.
    Guess if we are more conscious that good LFS exists for both interest and commercial reasons, that might prolong their existence.
    And if they do well, I believe we all will benefit by being able to get better/rarer/nicer whatever stuffs..

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    this is an open discussion, yet let's try to be a little teeny weeny bit sensitive towards the store owners' feelings.
    Cheers,
    Andrew

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewtyr
    this is an open discussion, yet let's try to be a little teeny weeny bit sensitive towards the store owners' feelings.
    Hi Andrew, good point.
    If we are more sensitive to store owners' feelings and objectives, we should have chipped in to help them be successful.

    After all, a few of the folks are friends of us all too!

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    I think some shops do not carry much accessories because of the high risk involved in stocking inventory. They don't want to stock stuff that they are not confident of selling. Furthermore, most of the business capital must be kept liquid in order to pay off costs like rent and utilities in order to sustain the business.

    Could shops venture into doing more value-add business like conducting seminars, publishing newletters, running a e-shop alongside the brick-and-mortar business?

  14. #14
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    I suppose criticism is hard to swallow, but constructive critcism may go down a little bit better.

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    well.. if you stock only fishes... people will only come to your shop to buy fishes.. because you're known for that.. stocking a good and rare mix of fishes.. if you stock plants.. the same applies..thats why so many people go to teo.. they sell plants..you go there to buy plants.. okay so i know they dont sell fish.. so its quite a bad example but you get what i mean..

    the hard part is to stock your shop well and YET still keep prices competitive.. seeing that the shop dealers have to deal with rent and all.. if a buyer comes to your shop and buys some things that you stock then he may just happend to just buy a few fishes as well cos he sees that they are nice... he may tell a friend.. so its a chain..

    but but but!! there is always the cheapskates.. and surprisingly.. i dont know why there are so many of them especially in this country.. i guess its not surprising coming from a place where its "proud" to be Kiasu.

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    On a lighter side of things, this is my dream shop..

    Just check out the number of tanks at the background!
    Well, obviously I am a small fishee person..
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    they should hire babes to service customers, and charge a premium
    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona · crumenatum · Galleria Botanica

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwchoy
    they should hire babes to service customers, and charge a premium
    Well I guess that's what the foldable ladder is for!

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    in that case all the expensive fishes will be housed at the top tier
    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona · crumenatum · Galleria Botanica

  20. #20
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    All the veteran here, excluding me, hehe. I think promoting & cultivating the interests to the nation will definitely boost the market. I am juz one of them who juz got hooked into planted tank, although i hv been keeping fishes for many years. Still a novice though.

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