How come my plants never bubble?

[Justikanz]

Up the fertz eh... Hmm... Maybe I can experiment and look see... Hopefully the amount will not kill the fish! But then again, my APP is growing a tat too slow and some weaker and smaller ones even seem to be dying... Up the fertz it shall be this weekend...

Standoyo... I just keep on imagining that it is the actress who was talking when I read your posts! Haha...

[plumboy21]

Up the fertz eh... Hmm... Maybe I can experiment and look see... Hopefully the amount will not kill the fish! But then again, my APP is growing a tat too slow and some weaker and smaller ones even seem to be dying... Up the fertz it shall be this weekend...

Standoyo... I just keep on imagining that it is the actress who was talking when I read your posts! Haha...

Ee... what is APP? If u really want to add more than required, think it's safer to remove all the critters or alternatively remove that particular plant for "experiment". This is just my novice way of planting, hehe.

[Justikanz]

APP = Ah Pek Plant, aka Elatine triandra.

[friend688]

Dear All Expert here,

Me new comer here and in this hobby. What about a normal 3 ft tank light intensity needed ? I'm currently using a 36W PL light. Is it sufficent ? I do see column of mini bubbles flowing slowly. Beautiful site.........

Rdgs
friend688

[solonavi]

I doubt its enough. Assuming ur tank is 3x1.5x1.5, its only 0.7WPG using the AquaticQuotient's calculator.

JC

[grey_fox]

Hi there,

Sorry to budge in on this conversation. I too am a novice (started about 1 month back) I see a film of oil on the water surface and after reading the forums here, found out that it is actually a protein layer.

My plants are growing but no bubbles, my tank is 4 x 1.5 x 2 (feets) 4 x 40W (7000K) plant lights (don't really know the correct terms yet) and approximately 1 bubble per second on the CO2 with 3 bio balls dispersing the CO2 (hopefully). Using 2 x Jebao (crap brand) external filters (think the biggest model) My substrate (think I got conned into buying that Sera fertilizer and the substrate + gravel is about 4 - 5" thick. The thing I don't really understand is the 20 or 30 PPM of CO2, how is this measured?

Also, if there is a layer of protein, that means the plants are photosynthesizing properly? I do see a lot of new shoots, leaves, dangling roots, etc forming but at the same time see dying leaves.

So much theories, don't really know which is correct... also, during this 'start up' period, how long does it take before I can do a change of water or to clean the filter's media.

I know my questions are not directly related to the bubble fizzling post but hope to see the bubbles fizzle from my plants one day too... hopefully with you experience and advise, I'll get them to fizzle like glass of Coke Light I'm having now.

Cheers,
Grey_Fox

[|squee|]

Hi greyfox (mods if you could split this thread maybe better?)

Welcome to AQ.

20-30 ppm of CO2 is just referring to the concentration of CO2 in the water. It's estimated using your kH and pH values. Read here. Aim for 35ppm to minimise measurement errors. Better yet, up CO2 bubble count till fish can take no more (do this very carefully and gradually over a course of days) and just tweak the knob down a little and you're set.

You should see bubbling/pearling if your plants are growing well after this. This is because the water is saturated with gases, and the oxygen plants are producing can't dissolve into the water anymore and thus form bubbles.

The layer of protein is alright. Remove the dying leaves diligently.

What theories are you referring to? Perhaps we can help you there.

Once the tank matured (like 2 weeks) I change 50% weekly. This is partly because my fert regime is the Estimative Index. I hardly clean the media, except for the mechanical media.

[solonavi]

Has anyone ever measure/know the ORP level in a tank that has plants pearling?

JC

[grey_fox]

Hi |Squee|,

Thanks for the information, appreciate the help! My tank already has fishes (feeding them already also) in it and I once did a partial change (10 to 15%) only. So what is recommeded is that I tweak the CO2 and also to do a 50% change of water?

Really hope to see the bubbles

[|squee|]

Yea, tweak the CO2. The goal here is to get 30 plus ppm of CO2 (hope you understood the article) so that optimum plant growth can be gotten. Once this is done, a few hours after your lights-on you should see bubbling beneath the leaves of plants as photosynthesis fills up the water with oxygen. Time goes on, and the bubbles become so acculmulated that you get bubbling/streaming/pearling/carbonated water Also have to ensure your ferts are good too.

The 50% water change is for me, for you it depends on your fert regime, or your own personal preference. For example if you do your fert regime by the Estimative Index then you do 50% water changes weekly. If you're dosing Dennerle fertilisers for example, then you have to follow Dennerle's instructions.

[grey_fox]

Just to find out, how do I get 30 PPM (which equates to roughly how many bubbles per second?)

Gonna read up more on the Estimative Index and find out more what sort of ferts I'm using. I'm still rather confused about the PPM (Parts per million) thingy and how that equates to the BPS.

Or is it a 'give-and-take' thingy? Whereby as long as there's sufficient CO2 and the fishes don't pass out, that should equate to above a range of 25 to 30 PPM?

*out of topic question again*
Does the water intially have a yellowish tint to it (before any initial water change) or should it be transparent? Maybe I should just do a 20-30% water change, just afraid it will affect the fishes (or worse) shock them to their deaths. =\ Also, should I start adding liquid ferts after a partial water change?

[PeterGwee]

Has anyone ever measure/know the ORP level in a tank that has plants pearling?

JC

DO is the measurement you want if you are interested. 10ppm and above is what you should see if the tank is doing well for most of the day.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[solonavi]

Hi Peter, mind me asking what is 'DO"?

Cheers
JC

[PeterGwee]

Dissolved Oxygen level....

Regards
Peter Gwee

[solonavi]

I assume a test kit is need to measure DO? Anyway to calculate DO based on ORP cos my controller can only measure pH and ORP.

Cheers
JC

[StanChung]

hi greyfox,
welcome to AQ.
Just to add to terence's comments...
160W for a 4ft tank you have about 2WPG. this is just enough, assuming you have a 1.5ft H tank you should be able to see pearling on the plants closer to the light.
before you start installing more lights, consider a surface skimmer. It clears the film on the top, letting in more light into your tank.

pearling is significantly less noticeable when the current in the water is strong as you mentioned you have two powerful canisters running as the current dissolves the oxygen as it forms.


HTH.

[valice]

30 PPM dun really equate to BPS. Instead, it is dependent on your KH (carbonate hardness) and PH of your water. The calculation could either be obtained from Green Chapter's website (www.greenchapter.com) or google for it. Optimally, you use target for 35ppm like wat terence mentioned after 2 hours of CO2 on time...

So the number of bubbles may vary given the circulation of your co2. Most pple here will advice that you up ur co2 slowly till u see that your fauna seems like all heading up to the surface...

And as for your yellowish tint, do u have driftwood in your tank? It could be the tanins from it... It would disappear after some time... Water change will help...

Hope this helps...

[grey_fox]

hi greyfox,
welcome to AQ.
Just to add to terence's comments...
160W for a 4ft tank you have about 2WPG. this is just enough, assuming you have a 1.5ft H tank you should be able to see pearling on the plants closer to the light.
before you start installing more lights, consider a surface skimmer. It clears the film on the top, letting in more light into your tank.

pearling is significantly less noticeable when the current in the water is strong as you mentioned you have two powerful canisters running as the current dissolves the oxygen as it forms.


HTH.

Hi Standoyo,

Thanks for your reply. I considered the fact that the output from the canister filters could be 'blowing away' any sign of the bubbles however for pearling, I believe it should be noticeable right at the tip of the leaf? At times I see some bubbles rising but pretty small but wonder if it is my eyes playing tricks on me or could it be the CO2 that's being dispersed?

By the way, when you guys clean the filter, do you actually wash the media or leave it ?

30 PPM dun really equate to BPS. Instead, it is dependent on your KH (carbonate hardness) and PH of your water. The calculation could either be obtained from Green Chapter's website (www.greenchapter.com) or google for it. Optimally, you use target for 35ppm like wat terence mentioned after 2 hours of CO2 on time...

So the number of bubbles may vary given the circulation of your co2. Most pple here will advice that you up ur co2 slowly till u see that your fauna seems like all heading up to the surface...

And as for your yellowish tint, do u have driftwood in your tank? It could be the tanins from it... It would disappear after some time... Water change will help...

Hope this helps...

Hi valice,

Thanks for the reply too. I guess I will have to try to tweak the CO2, however just to update, it seems that the fauna are heading towards the light source (can see they're somewhat stretching)

*off-topic*
Yup I do have 2 pieces of driftwood, so your recommendation would be to have the water changed? Roughly 20-30% would do or should I do a 50% one?

[StanChung]

hi grey fox,

the bubbles for plants normally collect on the underside with exception of mosses and liverworts if i'm not mistaken. some plants like the large echinodorus and lotus are cool as the oxygen finds a break in the plant and fizzes from that area. it's a constant fizz. i think i used to be like you...always wondering why my plants don't fizz. haha. i added 60w[270l at 2.5WPG] of lighting, put a surface skimmer, cleaned the perspex on the lighting fixture[it was brown!] and fizzzzzzz...

for the canister, i normally just rinse with dechlorinated/aged water...pat a little then i put in some photo synthetic bacteria. like every six months...

[grey_fox]

hi grey fox,

the bubbles for plants normally collect on the underside with exception of mosses and liverworts if i'm not mistaken. some plants like the large echinodorus and lotus are cool as the oxygen finds a break in the plant and fizzes from that area. it's a constant fizz. i think i used to be like you...always wondering why my plants don't fizz. haha. i added 60w[270l at 2.5WPG] of lighting, put a surface skimmer, cleaned the perspex on the lighting fixture[it was brown!] and fizzzzzzz...

for the canister, i normally just rinse with dechlorinated/aged water...pat a little then i put in some photo synthetic bacteria. like every six months...

Hey standoyo,

Yeah I do see some bubbles collected at the base of the leaves (those larger ones) but want to see them 'fizz' instead. (nicer ) *still waiting for that day

*off-topic*
Also what is photo synthetic bacteria? And where does one culture/buy/collect these from? Also where can one get a surface skimmer?