Can Apistogramma, cardinals and shrimps live together

[Ram]

Recently I read with interest on the postings of Apistogramma in this forum. I would like to become a Apistogramma fan too. can someone here give me advice on;
(1) Can Apistogramma, cardinals and shrimps live together? If not what are their best tankmates?
(2) Do they need low temperature? My tank's temperature is about 28 to 30 degree C.
(3) What type of apisto to start with, ie. not too expensive and easy to keep.
(4) What to feed them?
Thanks for the help.

[ahkarboy]

cant remember whether it was the cardinal or neon that ate shrimps the size of cherries. there was a post here somewhere.

[lwm999]

My experience:
Apisto+cardinal -> ok
Apisto+shrimp -> No no, unless the shrimps are BIG.

I just feed them dried food. They will be happy with live food, just like many other fishes.

I think no special diet. I might be wrong. Need to hear from expert.

[Justikanz]

Benny told me he had an apisto that munched his Corydoras hastatus! I would not put shrimps or small tetras with biggish apistos...

I believe the apistos should be safe with adult cardinal tetras. I had the panda and the Boreili (sp?) with adult cardinals before. They kill other apistos but generally leave the adult cardinals alone...

The apistos should be safe with big Yamato shrimps. Dun waste the money on cherries... Think will end up as apisto tidbit...

If you want cheaper apistos, try the panda or the boreili... They are pretty and cheap (usually ~S$4). Then when you have the experience, go for the cacatouides and others for more colours...

Have fun...

[benny]

(1) Can Apistogramma, cardinals and shrimps live together? If not what are their best tankmates?

Apistogramma spp. in general are territorial and will abuse smaller tankmates (and occasionally even bigger ones). Shrimps are often just blood sport for them and they like to just peck at the eyes. I've seen apistos taking on shrimps about their size. Blind shrimps don't last very long.

Most apisto would be more comfortable with some dither fishes in the tank. This mid level fishes makes the apisto feels secure and they will come out more. Good examples of dither fishes should be between 3 to 5 cm. Cardinal tetras are good, so are pencil fishes. Both from the same country of origin. You can also consider adding some otocinclus or whiptail catfish for house keeping, algae management.

(2) Do they need low temperature? My tank's temperature is about 28 to 30 degree C.

28 to 30 degrees is fine. If course, you should have adequate aquarium decoration to keep them happy. Some plants will be ideal and it's best to keep plants between 26 to 29 degrees C. Don't forget suitable substrate. Fine river sand or quartz gravel is good. But keep the water soft and the pH between 5 to 7 if possble. Some hobbyists swear by ADA's aquasoil. At S$36 to S$40 a pack of 8 kg, it's a luxury to some.

(3) What type of apisto to start with, ie. not too expensive and easy to keep.

Some hobbyists are not interested to go into breeding and may be happy just buying males and watch them displaly to each other. This being the case, there is plenty of apistos in the price range from S$4 to S$16 per piece. Examples of which includes A panduro, A. borelli, A agassizii, A cacatuoides, A. trifaciata amongst others. However, if you want to get a pair, that's a bit more challenging and most shops don't carry them. For an eye opener, trying Biotope at Bukit Merah and Sam Yick and United Square.

Alternatively, you can consider Rams too, which are also dwarf cichlids

(4) What to feed them?

They are not too fussy eater and will take quickly to dried/frozen food such as frozen bloodworms, flakes and pellets. Some hobbyists prefer to feed them with live food such as tubifex worms and brine shrimps, but preparation of live tubifex worms is critical as it may carry diseases. A combination of both would be be the ideal solution.

Hope that helps! And if you are looking for apistos to start off with, keep you eyes open. There should be some availabe here very soon!

Cheers,

[samuelgoh]

likewise i dun think apistos can comm with shrimps, tetras maybe but shrimps are definately a big NO NO.
although the apistos are very much tamed and suitable for planted tanks, they are still, after all a cichlid (correct me if i am wrong, i rmb i read somewhere that they belong to the family).

[Justikanz]

Yes, Samuel, Apistos are dwarf cichlids. A lot of people forgot about that cos they look so small and cute. So are discus and angels, fyi.

[SCOPE]

I kept cories together with Apisto all the while & got no problem so far...
As for neon, i usually used them as breeding indicator...if i saw dead neon...
it must be the act of a breeding female having fries already...

[Ram]

Thank you all for the good advice.

[benny]

As for neon, i usually used them as breeding indicator...if i saw dead neon...
it must be the act of a breeding female having fries already...

That's good information! Thanks for sharing!

So the female will actually be agressive enough to attack even the small and unassuming fishes like the Neon Tetra?

Cheers,

[Justikanz]

As for neon, i usually used them as breeding indicator...if i saw dead neon... it must be the act of a breeding female having fries already...

Tsk tsk... The things people do... Where is that Hexazona shakling head monkey/chimp that Choy uses when it is needed?

There are better indicators of breeding, like the disappearance of the apistos (hiding/incubating), flaring, signaling, turning darker (or brighter) etc than sacrificing the neons...

[Justikanz]

So the female will actually be agressive enough to attack even the small and unassuming fishes like the Neon Tetra?

Females with babies will attack anything getting too close to the fries. Try your finger...

But if the object is too big/insistent/fierce, the female may abandon the fries. Dun try it unnecessarily...