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Thread: Barr's EI - Advice Needed

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by neon
    Someone was suggesting from the K is enough from the KNO3 and K2PO4 , if EI method is used ?
    Believe you are referring to Plantbrain ? Plantbrain is Tom Barr. You should use APC's fertilator, this can be located at http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...fertilator.php to find out if you are currently under or over dosing your ferts. It's a rough guide, but nonetheless, combined with Tom's E.I guide, it works hand-in-hand.

    I swear by the Estimative Index. From my little experience of E.I, I initially messed around with the dosage of the ferts and experimented to several stem plants, the results were superb.

    I under-dosed the ferts for 1 week and lo-behold, green spot algae, stag horn algae starting appearing, whilst maintaining a constant 30PPM of CO2 during the photo-period.

    The week after, I did a slight O.D (within safe limits; never hitting the NO3 above 40PPM per week) and the results were tremendous, the green spot algae started to disappear after the water change and the staghorn untangled itself from the plants.

    I have fine tuned the dosage in accordance to my tank (plant needs) and so far so good.
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  2. #42
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    You're adding 15.5ppm of NO3 a week?? or per dosing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ranmasatome
    You're adding 15.5ppm of NO3 a week?? or per dosing?
    I believe is per dosing. He did mention it 2 or 3 times in his previous posting in this thread.

    With his high lighting he need it !

    In my tank with moderate lighting 2WPG. I'm dosing around 16ppm per week .. but that also partly because my tank water nitrate are high at 30ppm range already. Anyway i'm still experimenting with my tank .. so i'm keeping up on this thread to learn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor
    I have a 56L tank with CO2 at 35ppm and lighting at 3.5 W/g. I am very interested in adopting the EI method. Could you please check whether the following regiment is fine:
    1. 50% water change (weekly)
    2. NO3 10ppm (3X weekly) with KNO3
    3. PO4 0.5ppm (3X weekly) with KH2PO4
    4. K+ 20ppm (3X weekly) from KNO3/KH2PO4
    5. Iron 0.5ppm (3X weekly) with Seachem Iron
    5. Seachem Equilibrium 1/4 teaspoon (1X weekly after water change)
    6. TMG 5ml (3X weekly)

    Thanks for your advice.
    Hi guys, Thor's example of NO3 10ppm (3X weekly) with KNO3 --- he dosed 10ppm of NO3 for each dose and 3x/week(total 30ppm) or he dosed a total of 10ppm NO3 per week{so one dose = (10/3)ppm} ???

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    10ppm with each dose.

  6. #46
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    Given my tank is 25.5L = 6.74 Gal(US), Lighting is 24Watts; 3WPG(US).
    1. 50% water change (weekly)
    2. NO3 ??ppm(?X weekly) with Seachem Nitrogen
    3. PO4 ??ppm(?X weekly) with Seachem Phosphorus
    4. K+ ??ppm(?X weekly) from Seachem Potassium
    5. Iron ??ppm(?X weekly) with Seachem Iron
    6. Ferka Aquatilizer (?X weekly)

    What's the recommended input of the values for ? If I want to follow Tom Barr's EI guide of fert regime ??

    5. Seachem Equilibrium 1/4 teaspoon (1X weekly after water change)

    Is Seachem Equilibrium necessary If I am using ADA aquasoil 'amazonia' ?
    Last edited by Ah_ZhaN; 8th Sep 2006 at 22:37.

  7. #47
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    Ah_Zhan, you wouldn't want to do EI using Seachem's line... The concentration is abit low for my liking, and so you probably can finish a bottle like in 2 weeks if going by the amount you will be adding... That's my experience on a 2ft tank...

    Equilibrium is good for making sure that Ca and Mg is not limited... So it is still necessary even though you are using aquasoil...
    ~ Vincent ~ Fishes calm your mind...
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/valice/





  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by valice
    Ah_Zhan, you wouldn't want to do EI using Seachem's line... The concentration is abit low for my liking, and so you probably can finish a bottle like in 2 weeks if going by the amount you will be adding... That's my experience on a 2ft tank...

    Equilibrium is good for making sure that Ca and Mg is not limited... So it is still necessary even though you are using aquasoil...
    But I'm currently available with seachem products(250ml bottles) mostly...so how should I proceed with my dosage ?? What method should I follow instead? I'm ready to use them up so as to purchase the dry fert instead.
    Last edited by Ah_ZhaN; 9th Sep 2006 at 01:30.

  9. #49
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    Anyway.....I dosed:
    NO3 10.35ppm with Seachem Nitrogen
    PO4 0.97ppm with Seachem Phosphorus
    K+ 13.82ppm with Seachem Potassium

    My plants pearl much more than before after one hour of lighting.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterGwee View Post
    You really do not need daily additions since 30ppm is about the max even for a very high light tank. If you like daily dosing, you can split up the dosage for daily additions.

    Regards
    Peter Gwee
    If you want/wish, daily dosing and/or liquids can be used
    Here's the older pregenatigor to EI: PMDD + PO4 dosing:

    http://www.barrreport.com/estimative...ei-dosing.html

    This is what most folks where using pre 1997(PMDD), all I did was to suggest adding PO4 and bumping the levels up to account for higher lighting. Add weekly 50% water changes and you can tweak things to pretty narrow range with ease.

    Prior to this(1996), we had several methods, this one suggest both water changes and testing via calibrated test kits:

    http://www.barrreport.com/estimative...arameters.html

    PMDD link is here:
    http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/pmdd-tim.html
    You will note that the same math for dilutions series is discussed in the PMDD, this same dilution concept is applied to all the nutrients with EI.

    Nothing new there.

    Just no one had the guts to suggest it and show that it could work back then. Everyone was so married to the test kits

    Some still are and have been mad at me ever since.
    Ironic thing is I test far more than most anyone, but I test to answer a purpose driven question so I do not have to keep testing in the future merely to monitor.



    Regards,
    Tom Barr

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_fox View Post

    I have fine tuned the dosage in accordance to my tank (plant needs) and so far so good.
    Everyone should fine tune and tweak their routines.

    I think you if are logical about things, make safe assumptions, you can easily figure things out.

    Do not believe everything you think.

    If the tank was doing great for several weeks, months etc, you had been dosing 20ppm of NO3, 3ppm PO4, Adding GH, 5mls of traces 4-5x a week etc then suddenly you get algae.............

    and you have been dosing the same nutrients all along............can it be due to the PO4? NO3? Traces?

    Nope.

    CO2?

    Most likely.

    Knowing this, we can deduce the problem.
    Since we already know that excess nutrients do not cause algae to bloom, we can strike that issue off our list of potential causes.

    So............what does cause algae then?
    what causes our tanks to get out of whack/balance?

    Well, try to add too many fish sometime or shrimp(until you get an algae bloom).

    Add terrestrial fertilizers with urea and NH4 at higher levels

    Mess with the CO2 and add higher light.

    If the fish load is the same, the feeding, etc, and you have not been adding NH4............what does this leave you?

    CO2.

    How fast might CO2 concentrations change in an aquarium?
    In 1 hour they can go from 30ppm to less 0.5ppm and right back up again.

    How about NH4? Again, pretty fast and there's only a very small amount required(less than 1ppm).

    Adding both NH4 and CO2, now you have a two way street of algae inducement.

    If you dramatical reduce or change the CO2 up and down, this greatly slows the uptake of NH4.

    So there's a lull in the NH4 and the time where the algae can be induced due to higher level of NH4 can be just a few hours also.

    Plants want/need stability, algae are induced by changes in the environment.

    So there you have it.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr

  12. #52
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    Hi bro. just want to ask people who use EI as Tom reco
    EI method still need substrate fertilizer or not

  13. #53
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    hi i got a healthy growing 3 footer with good plant mass and good growth. But i still got hair algae. keep coming even after i remove them manually.

    just started EI for this tank 1 week. is there anything i can do to eliminate the hair algae totally?

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by vorachat View Post
    Hi bro. just want to ask people who use EI as Tom reco
    EI method still need substrate fertilizer or not
    Need no, help? Yes.
    I'd suggest ADA Aqua soil.

    A sediment fert +water column fert complement the other, it's not "either or", it's both.

    You get longer life out of the sediments, and you get better more consistent supply from the water column. This = easier management of nutrients.

    Then you worry and focus on CO2.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr

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