Barr's EI - Advice Needed

[Thor]

I've just read Barr's EI report and some of his ideas on fertilization of planted tanks are quite radical. For instance:

1. Algae blooms are caused by nutrient deficiency, not nutrient excess. His
recommendation range of nutrient dosage are higher than Chuck's.

2. There is no need for test kits as long as the nutrient dosage follows
large weekly water changes to prevent any build-up.

Has anyone tried following his recommendations and what was the result?

http://www.barrreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1

[xxdivinityxx]

Come join the converts.
No algaes, no measurings. I'm a convert and a firm believer.

Key issue here is you must have a constant of 30-45 ppm of C02 during photo period. I.e. No DIY c02, no shady regulators.

Am now trying his non-c02 method. My tank is virtually algae free except for the occasional spot algae when i forget to dose my p04.

[|squee|]

Has anyone tried following his recommendations and what was the result?

I think almost all of us regular posters use EI.

It works, as long as you fix your CO2 problem first. Tom says 90% of all algae problems arise from insufficient CO2. Get it 35ppm and above, or if you want to go all the way rise bubble count till livestock's max comfort level.

KNO3, KH2PO4 trice weekly traces twice weekly, 50% water changes and Seachem Equlibrium once a week.

Very routine and dummies-friendly.

[Thor]

I think almost all of us regular posters use EI.

It works, as long as you fix your CO2 problem first. Tom says 90% of all algae problems arise from insufficient CO2. Get it 35ppm and above, or if you want to go all the way rise bubble count till livestock's max comfort level.

KNO3, KH2PO4 trice weekly traces twice weekly, 50% water changes and Seachem Equlibrium once a week.

Very routine and dummies-friendly.

Thanks, I will give it a try. You mentioned dosing KNO3 and KH2PO4 thrice weekly. If I am aiming for a weekly NO3 dosage of 15 ppm, do I just dose 5 ppm each time?

[|squee|]

No, I dose 15ppm each time. The idea here is to gauge your plant uptake rate of nutrients. A high-light CO2ed tank with stem plants will probably warrant daily additions.

[PeterGwee]

No, I dose 15ppm each time. The idea here is to gauge your plant uptake rate of nutrients. A high-light CO2ed tank with stem plants will probably warrant daily additions.

You really do not need daily additions since 30ppm is about the max even for a very high light tank. If you like daily dosing, you can split up the dosage for daily additions.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[Thor]

I have a 56L tank with CO2 at 35ppm and lighting at 3.5 W/g. I am very interested in adopting the EI method. Could you please check whether the following regiment is fine:
1. 50% water change (weekly)
2. NO3 10ppm (3X weekly) with KNO3
3. PO4 0.5ppm (3X weekly) with KH2PO4
4. K+ 20ppm (3X weekly) from KNO3/KH2PO4
5. Iron 0.5ppm (3X weekly) with Seachem Iron
5. Seachem Equilibrium 1/4 teaspoon (1X weekly after water change)
6. TMG 5ml (3X weekly)

Thanks for your advice.

[PeterGwee]

I have a 56L tank with CO2 at 35ppm and lighting at 3.5 W/g. I am very interested in adopting the EI method. Could you please check whether the following regiment is fine:
1. 50% water change (weekly)
2. NO3 10ppm (3X weekly) with KNO3
3. PO4 0.5ppm (3X weekly) with KH2PO4
4. K+ 20ppm (3X weekly) from KNO3/KH2PO4
5. Iron 0.5ppm (3X weekly) with Seachem Iron
5. Seachem Equilibrium 1/4 teaspoon (1X weekly after water change)
6. TMG 5ml (3X weekly)

Thanks for your advice.

Up the PO4 dosage a tad to about 2ppm per dose 3x a week and forget about the Seachem iron as TMG would cover it pretty good.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[Thor]

Thanks, much appreciated.

[valice]

Sorry to bunge in...
Can TMG be replaced using Seachem Fluorish?
Should be the same rite?

[PeterGwee]

Sorry to bunge in...
Can TMG be replaced using Seachem Fluorish?
Should be the same rite?

Not much different except for the chelators for Fe and concentrations of different elements.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[Thor]

I just like to give an update on EI. It has worked wonders for my tank! I've never seen the flora and fauna so healthy and the algaes are now out of sight. I've never gain so much pleasure from viewing the tank as over the past week.

Over the past two years, I have been battling with BBA, not knowing that nutrient deficiency and poor plant health were the cause of it. Almost threw in the towel too.

Now, I swear by EI and strongly recommend it to anyone with a high maintenance tank.

Thanks to everyone, esp. Tom, Peter and Squee for enlightening me.

[|squee|]

Congrats.

[spinex]

Hi i got a 25 gallon 1.5ft cube tank with 79W of lighting but i still experience brown algae issue even CO2 is already being pump in excess till there's pearling from my plants. I only have HC as foreground and hairgrass and downoi for the entire tank.

Is it because there are not enough plant to take up the nutrients that caused the problem ? Nitrate last tested was very high at 80ppm Already change 50% of water since.

I was dosing on a daily basis using auto doser.

Daily dosage based on EI
---------------------------------
2.23ppm of NO3 (from Lushgro)
3.6ppm of K (from Lushgro)
0.72ppm P (from KH2PO4)
1ml of Seachem flourish a day.

With strong light .. CO2 and dosing i don't find the growth of the plants spectacular also and it seem slow.

Any idea what's wrong ?

[PeterGwee]

Too little nutrients...

Regards
Peter Gwee

[spinex]

Too little nutrients...

Regards
Peter Gwee

Based on Tom Barr EI example on his 80 litre tank. He was dosing daily like

5ppm NO3
2.9ppm K
1.2 ppm PO4

Since my nitrate was already high previously. Even i was dosing 2.3ppm NO3 it should be alright. I'm using ADA soil which should provide some nutrient for the HC , downoi and hairgrass since it's only 2 mths.

[|squee|]

spinex, take a look into water circulation and temperature as well.

[spinex]

spinex, take a look into water circulation and temperature as well.

My water circulation should be quite good because i'm using a rainbar. Water is flowing at 1200l/hr. Water temp is maintain at 25-26 using a chiller.

Guess maybe i listen to Peter advice and up the dosing more. I also got some more plants today to plant the tank more densely. Hope that will help

[Plantbrain]

I just like to give an update on EI. It has worked wonders for my tank! I've never seen the flora and fauna so healthy and the algaes are now out of sight. I've never gain so much pleasure from viewing the tank as over the past week.

Over the past two years, I have been battling with BBA, not knowing that nutrient deficiency and poor plant health were the cause of it. Almost threw in the towel too.

Now, I swear by EI and strongly recommend it to anyone with a high maintenance tank.

Thanks to everyone, esp. Tom, Peter and Squee for enlightening me.

Whatda I do now?


So is it really radical or does it make more sense?
It's about the plants, not the algae.
Focus on the plant's needs, then you do not have algae.

If anything looks squirrley, check the CO2 and add more.

Also, see the CO2 mist method, limewood airstones work well IME for this and cost 1-2$ each.

Regards,
Tom Barr

www.BarrReport.com

[Plantbrain]

Based on Tom Barr EI example on his 80 litre tank. He was dosing daily like

5ppm NO3
2.9ppm K
1.2 ppm PO4

Since my nitrate was already high previously. Even i was dosing 2.3ppm NO3 it should be alright. I'm using ADA soil which should provide some nutrient for the HC , downoi and hairgrass since it's only 2 mths.

Not really, more like 10-11ppm per dose of NO3.

I've bypassed using all that crap ADa sells along with ADA amazonia soil.
I found using it and their line of ferts made the plants grow slower(worst).

So I simply add mulm to the bottom, then the soil, and dose the cheap ferts, EI method etc with excellent results with the hardest of stem plants all in the same tank doing better(as a function of growth rate) than anyone else it seems.

2-3ppm NO3 a day is fine for most moderately lighted tanks.

Some higher light tanks tend to need more.
Plants adapt to higher levels of nutrients by using less enzyme resources to get the nutrients, since higher concentrations will push more nutrients into the plant at a faster rate.

So the plant has more resources to produce more vegetative growth, rather than roots, enzymes etc.

Regards,
Tom Barr

www.BarrReport.com