Beginner with 6 X 2 X 2

[vratenza]

Hi vratenza!

Welcome to Aquatic Quotient and thanks for the kind compliments. Really made our day.

I had some comments, but most of them are already covered by the good advice, comments and recommendations posted by the guys earlier.

One thing I will point out is the by using 1 filter instead of 2, the heat load on the water will be reduced as the pump also contribute heat to the water. Check the Wattage on 2 X 2028 and 1 X 2260 and you can get an estimate. Incidentally, the Eheim Professional III series has 2 inlet and 1 outlet. Uses very little power, but it's a a premium. Easy maintanence, but at a premium.

You setup sounds exciting. Do keep us updated of the development. Better yet, show us as it happens, very much like what Nicky has done.

Cheers,

Thanks for the warm welcome!

Your commments are sound in principle
but when i checked the wattage for 2028 (25w) vs 2260 (50w)........so they worked out to be the same leh..... both about 50W of power consumption and thus abou the same amt of heat energy produce given the same mechanical underpinings. I guess 2X 2028 offers more versatility whereas a single 2260 offers ease of maintainance....

BTW....whats the cost of 2260 vs 2X 2028?

But the eheim pro III is a piece of art! wonder if anyone has it in Spore? Anyone care to shock me with the pricing?

[Nicky]

Another thing.. you probably want to know that you do not really need solid wood for your supporting brace of your cabinet. 2 supporting structures, each with 2 piece of 1" thick plywood stick together will do the supporting role. When I order a 622 tank from a very reputable shop some years back, that was how it was done. To-date, the cabinet is still intact and looks as strong as before.

Chengai wood is for kiasu people, like me..

[Nicky]

But the eheim pro III is a piece of art! wonder if anyone has it in Spore? Anyone care to shock me with the pricing?

Kingfisher is using it for their display tank.
NA has a piece for sale.
Vinz is using one.

Price is high $5xx to low $6xx. Ask LFS lah.

Go for 2 filters lah, what's the point of having 2 input and only 1 outlet if you want circulation? Having 1 filter instead of 2 means if the only one die on you then you are caught. Having said that, I have yet to hear Eheim failing on anyone.

[vratenza]

Here's my take on this..

You need to hold the tank-maker responsible for your tank and the safety that comes with it. So if they said you must have this and that it is best to follow their instruction.

I think you are ok;
- you do not want suspended light
- you do not want MH because you cannot suspend them
- you want to have something cool and yet need to penetrate water
- your tank need center bracing (according to your tank maker)
- you are considering T5 and T5 does not come in 6ft

So you just have to make the center brace and get 3ft T5 lah.

Aquamarin has a neat and affordable T5.
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=17588
Seen it with my own eye. Can consider.

I was looking at this offering too from Aquamarin but my biggest question is whether it has parabolic reflectors. Read that parabolic reflectors make the most difference in the light penetration....... Otherwise i may be looking at Delighting's offering which have the parabolic reflectors.......if no size can fit i may consider DIY with their DIY kit with aluminium square rods

[vratenza]

Kingfisher is using it for their display tank.
NA has a piece for sale.
Vinz is using one.

Price is high $5xx to low $6xx. Ask LFS lah.

Go for 2 filters lah, what's the point of having 2 input and only 1 outlet if you want circulation? Having 1 filter instead of 2 means if the only one die on you then you are caught. Having said that, I have yet to hear Eheim failing on anyone.

hmmm $5xx to $600.... that's about the price of 2X 2028....

That said.... a single pro III will only give 1700L/H of pump output whereas 2X 2028 is 2098L/H in total..... hmmm... seem like the choice is clearer now

[cks]

It is not a bad idea to use 2 filters if you can afford the $$$ and have enough space under your cabinet to place the 2 filters. Don't forget that eventaully you will have the 5 lts co2 bottle there, and when you progress into the hobby you want to install a uv set, then the external co2 diffusor and later when the idea of a chiller comes along then how are you going to explain to your CO that you need extra space.
The advanteges of having 2 filters are that you can use the first as a mechanical filter. The second as a biological filter. You can service 1 filter every six months. Alternatively the 1st filter can also be used as a chemical filter ie when the water in your tank becomes yellowish and you want to add some carbon to polish the water.Later when the clarity of your aquarium water is up to the mark, you can remove the carbon.
There is actually no reason why you should not use two filters. However do consider the other equiptment which will move in as you progress into this hobby.

[vratenza]

It is not a bad idea to use 2 filters if you can afford the $$$ and have enough space under your cabinet to place the 2 filters. Don't forget that eventaully you will have the 5 lts co2 bottle there, and when you progress into the hobby you want to install a uv set, then the external co2 diffusor and later when the idea of a chiller comes along then how are you going to explain to your CO that you need extra space.
The advanteges of having 2 filters are that you can use the first as a mechanical filter. The second as a biological filter. You can service 1 filter every six months. Alternatively the 1st filter can also be used as a chemical filter ie when the water in your tank becomes yellowish and you want to add some carbon to polish the water.Later when the clarity of your aquarium water is up to the mark, you can remove the carbon.
There is actually no reason why you should not use two filters. However do consider the other equiptment which will move in as you progress into this hobby.

Hmmm my policy is to do it right the first time.....of cos that will mean must stretch my limited budget to the fullest to get the best i can afford upon starting out....so the cost of 2 eheim is like a sunken cost already.... to play with the limited budget slowly........ intending to do the following:
Get the Tank+cabinet, base fert+gravel and ext cannister filters first......setup the tank and let the tank run in first.........
The next budget surplus (hopefully within a mth), can get the plants, T5 lights set and co2 sets with external reactor.....
Finish off with Chiller in the next round.........

Off cos if the budget permits or i eat sandwhich every day.... ideally can squeeze it all in 1 or 2 purchase

Regarding the space for all the equipments, i have considered each equipment's relative estimated size and I think i have more than enough space given that the cabinet underneath the 6 ft tank will be huge..... may even have space for a water aging tank

[Nicky]

Get the Tank+cabinet, base fert+gravel and ext cannister filters first......setup the tank and let the tank run in first.........
The next budget surplus (hopefully within a mth), can get the plants, T5 lights set and co2 sets with external reactor.....
Finish off with Chiller in the next round.........

If I were you I will not wait to plant after the base fert and substrate goes it. No matter what your base fert will leak a little into the water column. This plus no plant is definitely a receipe for a successful algae farm.

...may even have space for a water aging tank

This is the first time I heard of planted folks having a permenant water aging tank. Share with us on the rational of having it.

[vratenza]

If I were you I will not wait to plant after the base fert and substrate goes it. No matter what your base fert will leak a little into the water column. This plus no plant is definitely a receipe for a successful algae farm.

hmm.... din think about that..... ok then...think will throw in a few bunch of those fast growers like the cabomba duckweeds to absorb the nutrients. But then again.... during that time i dun have my T5 lights yet..... so without much light will the algae flourish?

This is the first time I heard of planted folks having a permenant water aging tank. Share with us on the rational of having it.

Well, i intend to have fish and shrimp as well.... and since the end of last year PUB has added Chloramine to our tap waters...... frankly speaking i suffered from this as i din realise that chloramine has been added.... so when i got my 1.5 ft tank earlier... i just fill it up with tap water and just let the filter run for 2 days before adding some livestock to establish the N cycle.... but in the end i got 50% casualties.... it's only when i read around the forum and realised that chloramine is in our tap and the normal aging or aerating dos not blow it off unlike the chlorine... need to use anti-chloramine agents......

So back to my point on water aging tank.......if i do water change...say 20% of the water drained and i pump in the water from the tap straight, i think some of my more sensitive intended inhabitats cannot take the untreated tap water...especially the shrimps.......so by filling the water aging tank first, i can add in anti-chloramine (i am using STRESS-COAT) and then by the use of a small pump, pump this treated water up to the main tank....

Also i will have a ready source of treated water to wash my filters without killing my BB colonies

So do you think i am being kiasu here?

[BFG]

Hi Vratenza, welcome to AQ!

2x2028
1x external co2 reactor or even 2. 1 for each filter output,
Pressurised co2 set,
1x surface skimmer,
chiller,
spare length of hoses for the filter.

You can get the hardware 1st so that you have some time studying how and where you would want to place these equipment. Since you have the space to place the 6 footer tank, why not mark the space with tape where the tank will be placed? You could visualize where all your hardware would be placed and get to adjust them to your preference. Purchase the tank AFTER you are sure of the equipment placement in the cabinet.

The Tank.

I've read through and it seems you are in a dilemma over the centre bracing. You got 2 choice and it ties in with the light set that you are getting ( T5 lights ).
1) If you would want to have a centre bracing, you would have to get 2 set of 4x39w 3ft T5 or 4 set of 2x39w T5 light set where you have more capability to adjust the light placement.

2) If you do not want a centre brace, you could get a 5ft T5 lightset. BUT, the side bracing need to be wider for the 5ft T5 light set to sit on. You could employ eurobracing to be used as some of the member has pointed out. BUT again, the bracing that run the length of the tank MUST have pre-drilled holes for the filter pipes to go through.

You could 'hide' the lightset and make it seems 'flushed' with the actual tank, such that the lightset does not protrude above the actual tank. You need to find the thinnest T5 lightset and get the measurement for the height of that lightset. Then you could instruct your tankmaker to have the side bracing built to the depth of the measurement. To visually cover the lightset, cover the front and sides with 'black tape' that is wide enough to cover the bracing from sight. This 'black tape' is usually sold at most lfs. It is a cheaper alternative than to have a open hood covering the bracing as that cost much more than a simple black tape.

Chiller.
I would not place the chiller in the cabinet, period. Nothing substitute efficient hot air dispersal like open space.

Before purchasing the substrate and fertiliser, spare some time going through some pictures of planted tank setup. There could be 1 design that you want to follow or emulate. Why do this? This step will help you to place the equipment that go into the tank eg the intake and outlet pipe going to and from the filter. The setup may have some places where you could hide the intake and output filter tube, making the setup aesthetically natural looking. Or, you could use the full range of ADA glass pipes.

Hope this helps!

[solonavi]

Nice to see another big tank in the making. Your list of equipments are very similar to mine but I'm using a sump system. (check my signature)

Cheers
JC

[vratenza]

Hi Vratenza, welcome to AQ!

2x2028
1x external co2 reactor or even 2. 1 for each filter output,
Pressurised co2 set,
1x surface skimmer,
chiller,
spare length of hoses for the filter.

You can get the hardware 1st so that you have some time studying how and where you would want to place these equipment. Since you have the space to place the 6 footer tank, why not mark the space with tape where the tank will be placed? You could visualize where all your hardware would be placed and get to adjust them to your preference. Purchase the tank AFTER you are sure of the equipment placement in the cabinet.

Good idea there.... but then again my CO will be nagging at me for buying the equipments before the tank..... to them, it is akin to buying your furnitures and electicals before your house is bought

The Tank.
I've read through and it seems you are in a dilemma over the centre bracing. You got 2 choice and it ties in with the light set that you are getting ( T5 lights ).
1) If you would want to have a centre bracing, you would have to get 2 set of 4x39w 3ft T5 or 4 set of 2x39w T5 light set where you have more capability to adjust the light placement.

2) If you do not want a centre brace, you could get a 5ft T5 lightset. BUT, the side bracing need to be wider for the 5ft T5 light set to sit on. You could employ eurobracing to be used as some of the member has pointed out. BUT again, the bracing that run the length of the tank MUST have pre-drilled holes for the filter pipes to go through.

You could 'hide' the lightset and make it seems 'flushed' with the actual tank, such that the lightset does not protrude above the actual tank. You need to find the thinnest T5 lightset and get the measurement for the height of that lightset. Then you could instruct your tankmaker to have the side bracing built to the depth of the measurement. To visually cover the lightset, cover the front and sides with 'black tape' that is wide enough to cover the bracing from sight. This 'black tape' is usually sold at most lfs. It is a cheaper alternative than to have a open hood covering the bracing as that cost much more than a simple black tape.

I am more for your option 2. Where by i will check with the tank maker if he can do euro bracing but make the side eurobracing glass panel wider to hold the pressure..... But from what i heard from NA Mr Chan, he can modify a 6ft hood to hold 6x 39W T5 tubes for me.... need to go back and ask him if can squeeze in 8x 39W T5 instead... that way, i do not need to rest the hood on the bracing and thus reduce the heat transfer to the water....

Chiller.
I would not place the chiller in the cabinet, period. Nothing substitute efficient hot air dispersal like open space.

I know the best is still open air.... but my CO has already laid the ground rules.... i can have the tank but i cannot mess up the space outside the confines of the tank/cabinet.....
So i guess i have to learn to deal with this limitation......

Before purchasing the substrate and fertiliser, spare some time going through some pictures of planted tank setup. There could be 1 design that you want to follow or emulate. Why do this? This step will help you to place the equipment that go into the tank eg the intake and outlet pipe going to and from the filter. The setup may have some places where you could hide the intake and output filter tube, making the setup aesthetically natural looking. Or, you could use the full range of ADA glass pipes.

hmmm where can i find ADA products in singapore? any catalog online? But given the budget constraint, probably will be some where down the road.....for the time being just use the provided eheim accessories...

[vratenza]

Nice to see another big tank in the making. Your list of equipments are very similar to mine but I'm using a sump system. (check my signature)

Cheers
JC

Hi JC, you are in arofanatics as well right? i think i saw your postings there. Actually my list of equipments and stuff are partly inspired by you Just that i decided to go the non-sump route

Can check with you, for your tank, how many bags of jbl base fert and lapis sand did you use in the end? I am calculating the amount to buy..... Spoken to NA Mr Chan, he told me I only need 5 bags of each......but i am not sure how deep will the amount he recommended come up to....
How deep is your final suubstrate? how deep is your base fert alone?

I noticed you are using centre glass bracing even though you have euro bracing already. Yours is made by Gerald a.k.a Tank_maker right? He told me for my 6x2x2 i definitely have to use a centre glass brace also.... but i am trying to get it done without it leh......

Is yours chengai or kamphor structure?

Also, I noticed that you have a "dark spot" in the top centre of the tank when lights are on..... is it due to the joint at the 2 sets of lights resting on the wooden centre brace of the hood cover or isit contributed by the GLASS centre brace below as well? The reason i ask is because i am currently deciding on the best combination of lighting option for my tank........ hopefully i can have a solution that will eliminate these "blindspots"....

Thanks!

[neon]

Sorry don't know to post small thumb-size photo here.

My 6' x2x2 tank (12mm thickness, black silicon) , euro bracing top and bottom, pre-drilled holes for filter hoses







Placement of 2262 , co2 tank , pvc piping , full chengai cabinet flat foot, louver doors , top hood/open top , MH lighting, 1 HP chiller , foot stool














Cheers

[coolbucks]

Hi Neon,

Wow, impressive with your tank set up equipments... Are u using rain bar to distribute the co2 output? able to share how u distribute even the co2... me tot of using 2260 for my 6ft tank as well...

[neon]

Hi Neon,

Wow, impressive with your tank set up equipments... Are u using rain bar to distribute the co2 output? able to share how u distribute even the co2... me tot of using 2260 for my 6ft tank as well...

I have changed my 2260 (1260 pump) to 2262 (1262 pump 3400L/h), as I have splitted the water return back to 2 sides of the tank.

Connection is 2262 --> chiller --> left side + right side

I had tried numerous method of diffusing/reacting CO2, so far the method work best for me now in my dense planted tank is using 2 power head/rainbars at the back with 2 different co2 injection into the power heads - 1 of them ~1000L/h and other one ~800l/h , so that they are able to chop,dispense mini tiny CO2 toward the front side . The CO2 mist rises very slowly. You won't notice if u r standing 2 ft away from the tank. Pearling within 2 hours thru out whole day. I am doing EI now.

[XnSdVd]

neon.. you've created a monster of a tank. A beautiful monster mind you Great job!

vratenza:

My advice would be to look at everyone else's setups first. You've got guys like solonavi who're on the high end with plants galore and super-buget setups like mine which can take up to 6 months to mature(and are slow to recover from accidents) Find out which tank suits your needs better. Though from my experience, it's better to be excessive and not need it than need something and not have it. PMed you on more details. That and try to think everything through twice before you do it. a mistake would be very costly and hard to rectify.

If you're looking for a cheap cabinet that works, contact [email protected]
They made my tank shelf. From what I can tell it's a metal frame covered with plywood. Cheap too. $480 for a shelf. Around $600 for a cabinet i'd imagine.

[solonavi]

Hi JC, you are in arofanatics as well right? i think i saw your postings there. Actually my list of equipments and stuff are partly inspired by you Just that i decided to go the non-sump route

Oh ya. So its u.

Can check with you, for your tank, how many bags of jbl base fert and lapis sand did you use in the end? I am calculating the amount to buy..... Spoken to NA Mr Chan, he told me I only need 5 bags of each......but i am not sure how deep will the amount he recommended come up to....
How deep is your final suubstrate? how deep is your base fert alone?

Mr. Chan recommended me 6 pack of lapis and 5 pack of JBL. I have about 4-5" of total substrate. Base fert is ~1" thick.

I noticed you are using centre glass bracing even though you have euro bracing already. Yours is made by Gerald a.k.a Tank_maker right? He told me for my 6x2x2 i definitely have to use a centre glass brace also.... but i am trying to get it done without it leh......

Ya. Its done by Gerald. U can see his pix on my blog.
Check out this link and it will helps u to determine the min thickness need for ur desired tank size. Point to note is that this is calculated without euro-bracing. http://www.fnzas.org.nz/articles/tec...lassthickness/

Is yours chengai or kamphor structure?

To be honest, I'm not sure.

Also, I noticed that you have a "dark spot" in the top centre of the tank when lights are on..... is it due to the joint at the 2 sets of lights resting on the wooden centre brace of the hood cover or isit contributed by the GLASS centre brace below as well? The reason i ask is because i am currently deciding on the best combination of lighting option for my tank........ hopefully i can have a solution that will eliminate these "blindspots"....

The blind spot is created by the 2 separate fixtures of T5. One is 2ft & the other 3ft. I'm not so concern of that because the blind spot is only at the top surface area which will hardly have any plants. Directly below that blind spot is actually pretty bright due to the crisscrossing of lights rays from both fixtures.

Cheers
JC

[ranmasatome]

WAh!! you guys are so good at helping..haha..

Personally..if this was my tank... i would..

1) get 2 3ft tanks instead of 1 6ft.... or 2 4ft tanks.. cos that gives me more variability in scaping and keeping fish.. i can have more scapes and more fish while still keep scapes nice and neat. or even 2 different scapes that i like..

2) BUT since its not my tank!! GO 6FT!!hahaha.. i just thought it would be a good consideration since you're already getting 2 of everything..for this 6ft.

3) filterwise.. i would go with a eheim pro3... that ends the story right there.

4) lights i love T5 HO. Make sure you get good reflectors.. they factor in ALOT ALOT to the amount of light that gets into your tank..big difference!! For a 2 ft in height tank..i feel they are more than enough.. also if you're sloping the back gravel then the plants are nearer to the lights anyway..
T5s are also cool... both in terms of heat dissipation and looks. Ask anyone that has switched from MH to T5s.. their chiller works WAAAAY less..i think nickys sugestion of 2 sets of 3ft lights to run the entire length is good.

5) gravel..i would go ADA personally.. its a bit ex and makes water a little acidic.. but i like acidic water personally because of the fish i keep.. and frankly..i'm sick and tired of lapis.. it is also light..

6)above equpiment is expensive....i know.. but the way i see how this work is better start out good then to be half - #$%.. like they say in the army..

7) i actually liek that centre bracing on tanks.. its a very convenient thing to have when it comes to pruning plants, taking photos of your tanks for competiton (Flash placement areas) and sometimes i use it to put my liqiudferts while dosing.. if you dont want that bracing at all.. you can actually consider eurobracing the bottom of your tank... that way.. no top bracing is seen and when you put the gravel down.. you also dont see the bottom bracing liao loh.. so looks like braceless tank..

[Nicky]

3) filterwise.. i would go with a eheim pro3... that ends the story right there.

But why har??

Why would anyone buy one filter when for the same price they can buy 2? Plus having 2 obviously reduced the risk of total breakdown of filtration system, right?
And pro3 is such a huge monster to store away.

I tell you what I think Pro3 is designed for.. it is for people who keep dragon or rays or some big fishes.