Help with Stunned Discus

[danielaw]

Hi,

Anyone know that if the Discus is stunned, any remedies to bring them back to good shape ?

Got 3 discus which are stunned and visible stress bar ?

[celticfish]

low light or no light.
hiding places.
if you have plants like java fern on DW place it in the front of the tank.
the idea is to place something inbetween them and you.
extreme case would be to place a towel around the tank.

also, check your temparature.
if you just got them, higher temparature may help in the process.
generally about 28 to 30 degrees would be good.

[danielaw]

Hi Celticfish,

Thanks for the advice. I keep my discus in bare tank with low light which I adopted from someone. They are in bad shape and seem like i need to quarantine them for a peroid of time, hopefully they can recovery from whatever shocked they had.

From you signature note, you seem to have experience and keep handful of discus. Besides clean water and aeration, Is there any other special attention need for discus ?

I am new in keeping them.

[celticfish]

if its the recent discus for adoption at the "market place" section...
3 x 2in discus, you can get away with a 2 ft tank.
i'm afraid there is nothing you can do about stunted discus.
however, i find stunted discus have more intense colours if its any consolation.
they just cannot grow big anymore.
otherwise, they are just like their sibling and able to reproduce.
stunted fish pass on their genes and not their poor growth.
try not to breed them as it will bring forth lesser fish into the gene pool.

my own water regime has slowed down.
i now just take a bucket of water out everyday or so (to clear the waste).
weekends i do a 50% water change, both days if i am able or at least one day.
some "aficianados" do a 100% water change daily.
personally i think its a bit overboard...

tetra bits are their staple food with bloodworms.
sometimes adult BS.
once in a while i roll the dice and buy tubifex.
the wild discus love it!

my heater is usually not turned on.
i find our weather is just fine for them.
if you have your tank in an air-conditioned room please turn yours on.
the heater is only used when i feel they are sluggish or dark.
sure sign something is wrong with them.
they should bright eyed and alert.
depending on the serverity, i may set the heater up to 34 degrees.
do make sure the airpump is working well as high temp has lower oxygen. (edit)
at the temparature not more than 3 days.
i almost never use any form of medication.
small fish growth always suffers from medications.
and my personal belief is medication stresses them more.

the basic is low PH and high (edit) temparature for any sickness.
they dont get any of that in nature, do they?

[danielaw]

Hi,

You reply fast. I will quarantine the 3 stunted discus and place tower around tank as your suggestion. Will monitor to see the progress.

Sorry, have another question. Can juvenile be mixed with adult discus ?

[celticfish]

oh, just to add.
i think you should continue with these discus to get your feet wet.
just spend time to observe their behaviour and you will gain better knowledge than any book.
when you are confident then go venture with some new juvenile discus.
the cheaper the better, believe me on this one!
the "second" stage is growing juveniles into proper sized adults.
also, they have a natural pecking order from big to small.
there will also be a runt in the group who gets less food.
a runt being different from a stunted fish as it can grow better in another tank on its own.
but don't take the runt out because another will take its place.
it should be there for the other fishes to grow better.
do not try to save/grow the runt by giving more food.

when you pass this stage then please go spend all the money you can on the strain that you like!!

[celticfish]

you can mix them IF you have enough space.
usually the dominat fish will stake out quite a large area of a tank.
this can be mitigated with hiding places (i.e. line of sight must be blocked).
otherwise the dominant fish will go after them.
they won't kill them outright but they will be bullied into poor health.

[danielaw]

wow, good advise. You are right man, better to know more and pass the test first before spending too much money.

if not suffer heavy losses if anything go wrong......
Thanks Brother

[Justikanz]

Anyway, pardon me for asking some questions...

I am intending to go back to keeping discus in planted tanks again, so I think I got to refresh myself...

Would changing water regularly help the stunted (not stunned ) discus grow again? I read that the growth hormones released by the alpha male is inhibiting the rest (and in a small tank, itself too) to grow. Would doing regular water changes remove these hormones and encourage them to grow?

Is it really true that small discus should never be kept with bigger ones as in the case mentioned above, the bigger discus will release hormones to stunt the youngsters?

Thanks...

[celticfish]

justinkanz,

i believe a stunted discus is beyond any hope of growth in size.
they can continue to live and maybe reproduce too (if the sexual reproduction devices were not damaged).

i don't think the hormone theory has been proven decisively (if recollection is correct was proposed by mr. turquoise discus himself).
but there are observable trends that have supported this theory (ie pecking order).
the main reasons for frequent water changes is the ammonia build up.
these are "big" fishes and usually kept in "schools".

having said that, i am keeping a female blue diamond about 5in with six heckels about 3 to 3.5in together.
they have been together since i got the heckels (2.5in) early this year.
i left the female with them because she wasn't a bully to them and i didn't have space too!

the other hormone theory i hear is of breeders tranfering water from the tank of a breeding pair to others to induce spawning!
worth a try but imagine the possibilities for any disease to spread...

my current goal, still alive, is to grow these heckels to as "full" a size as i am able.
wild fish don't normally grow to the fantastic sizes of domestics fish.
except one or two localities where they get to the size of a plate!
wild fish, i hear, normally get to about 4.5 to 5 in max.
unless you got them real small and pump them up.
then maybe put them in a planted tank when my home renovations are done later this year.

best advise for planted tank with discus.
don't buy small fish, buy adult size discus from the start.
"cleanest" food to give is frozen bloodworms.
you will not face the dilemma of feeding to pump them and dirty water.
rule of thumb is about 1 fish to 10 us gallons.
this may be increased by 50 to 100% if you have a delicate planted setup.


P.S. i have not done a planted discus setup.
maybe you guys can get further information from standoyo.
he's got a lovely setup.

Would changing water regularly help the stunted (not stunned ) discus grow again? I read that the growth hormones released by the alpha male is inhibiting the rest (and in a small tank, itself too) to grow. Would doing regular water changes remove these hormones and encourage them to grow?

Is it really true that small discus should never be kept with bigger ones as in the case mentioned above, the bigger discus will release hormones to stunt the youngsters?

Thanks...