Revisit: BGA.

[grey_fox]

OK, so I've re-scapped my tank and its been about 1 month.

So far so good, (proud to say I've tackled this algaes thus far - or maybe want to visit but my plants growth has been amazing thus far. ) no sign of BBA, hair algae, etc. However... (sad to say) I am beginning to see traces of BGA in the gravel (its visibly [traces] there but nothing serious [yet])!

Of all the algaes that can visit me, it has to be the "algae" BGA. Traces of it can be found in the gravel. I have since scrapped it out and siphoned it good. I know that having a 3 day blackout helps remove the BGA however I have diligently followed the steps in preventing BGA.

My previous attack of BGA was removed through a 4 day blackout + an extensive clean up.

I need some help in spotting where my mistake is this time round and advise on what I can do to prevent this before I proceed to do a blackout. (before it happens all over again)

My water flow of the tank has 1 x rainbar on the rear left with water flow from back to front, 1 x modified rainbar on the rear middle also facing back to front and 1 x elbow bar also at bottom with water flow from back to front.

These are the tank stats.

5 x 2 x 2 (feet)
149 (US) gallons
2.9 WPG

Fert stats.
E.I method (high side)

KNO3 - 1.7 tps - 9.61 PPM
K - from KNO3 - 6.06 PPM
PO4 - 1.2 ml - 1.42 PPM
Fe - 0.06 PPM

NO3 - 3 x weekly = 9.61 x 3 = 28.83 PPM
K - 3 x weekly = 6.06 x 3 = 18.18 PPM
PO4 - 3 x weekly = 1.42 x 3 = 4.26 PPM
Fe - 3 x weekly = 0.06 x 3 = 0.18 PPM

CO2 stats.
30.1 PPM

50% water change on weekends.

By order of elimination.
Would my problem be poor water flow? (I have 2 x 2028 at full power + 1 x Eheim 1260 external pump (2,400L/hr) connected to a chiller and the flow is good as well.

Low NO3? Currently dosing at near maximum per week or should I dose even more?

Too high light? (I'm sure there are others with higher lit tanks which don't have this issue right?)

Poor water quality? (I washed my pumps [replaced filter wool] about 1+ month back not together but one week after another and perform weekly (religiously) 50 % water change.

Any ideas what I am lacking/missing?

[neon]

OK, so I've re-scapped my tank and its been about 1 month.

So far so good, (proud to say I've tackled this algaes thus far - or maybe want to visit but my plants growth has been amazing thus far. ) no sign of BBA, hair algae, etc. However... (sad to say) I am beginning to see traces of BGA in the gravel (its visibly [traces] there but nothing serious [yet])!

Of all the algaes that can visit me, it has to be the "algae" BGA. Traces of it can be found in the gravel. I have since scrapped it out and siphoned it good. I know that having a 3 day blackout helps remove the BGA however I have diligently followed the steps in preventing BGA.

My previous attack of BGA was removed through a 4 day blackout + an extensive clean up.

I need some help in spotting where my mistake is this time round and advise on what I can do to prevent this before I proceed to do a blackout. (before it happens all over again)

My water flow of the tank has 1 x rainbar on the rear left with water flow from back to front, 1 x modified rainbar on the rear middle also facing back to front and 1 x elbow bar also at bottom with water flow from back to front.

These are the tank stats.

5 x 2 x 2 (feet)
149 (US) gallons
2.9 WPG

Fert stats.
E.I method (high side)

KNO3 - 1.7 tps - 9.61 PPM
K - from KNO3 - 6.06 PPM
PO4 - 1.2 ml - 1.42 PPM
Fe - 0.06 PPM

NO3 - 3 x weekly = 9.61 x 3 = 28.83 PPM
K - 3 x weekly = 6.06 x 3 = 18.18 PPM
PO4 - 3 x weekly = 1.42 x 3 = 4.26 PPM
Fe - 3 x weekly = 0.06 x 3 = 0.18 PPM

CO2 stats.
30.1 PPM

50% water change on weekends.

By order of elimination.
Would my problem be poor water flow? (I have 2 x 2028 at full power + 1 x Eheim 1260 external pump (2,400L/hr) connected to a chiller and the flow is good as well.

Low NO3? Currently dosing at near maximum per week or should I dose even more?

Too high light? (I'm sure there are others with higher lit tanks which don't have this issue right?)

Poor water quality? (I washed my pumps [replaced filter wool] about 1+ month back not together but one week after another and perform weekly (religiously) 50 % water change.

Any ideas what I am lacking/missing?

I think NO3 should be around 15-30PPM per dose, and Fe should 0.5PPM per dose .

[grey_fox]

15-30 PPM per dose? Can someone confirm this?

[Plantbrain]

I usually dose 10ppm or so each time(3x-4x a week with a very high light tank).

I think you just need to go in and bother that BGa that'
s there along the gravel line, fluff that area up each month or so and it'll never bug you.

You get these clogged regions in the gravel and adding a little light will allow low NO3 pockets to form and BGA will start to grow then.

That's why you will often see many tanks with decent KNO3 dosing never have the BGA ever cause an issue if it's just along the gravel line.........

Black tape or sloping the gravel down to the edge of the trim will solve that as will not placing the tank near ambient sources of light.

You can see it grow denser close to the tank's side to a window than the back dark side where it's often non existant.

Simply fluffing/deep vacuuming the gravel once every 1-3 months will help prevent it.

Don't worry, BGA is always in your tank waiting, you just cannot see it with a microscope. I've never seen a sample from a planted tank's gravel that did not have BGA filaments growing on it.

The cleanest of tanks has it.
Prevention through good plant nutrients is the best method you have against all algae.


Regards,
Tom Barr

[grey_fox]

Thanks Tom.

I guess I'll increase the dosage slightly then and of course bother the hell out of the BGA

NO3 - 2.5 tps - 14.14PPM x 3 = 42.42PPM [weekly]
PO4 - 1.5 ml - 1.78PPM x 3 = 5.34PPM [weekly]
K+ - 8.91 x 3 = 26.73PPM (K from KNO3) [weekly]

Seachem Floursish contributes 0.06PPM X 3 = 0.18PPM [weekly]

Each week when I do my water change, I do bother the gravel line a bit and fluff up whatever that needs to be fluffed. (I do see some grains of gravel on the surface that is covered green - i'm suspecting this is BGA?)

Should I remove these green covered grains of gravel out?

[ranmasatome]

IF you do then you will have a lot of gravel grains to remove.. it think the best choice now is the fluffing about every 2mths and the KNo3 increase..

Usually i dose about 40-50ppm weekly for my high light tanks. Then come end of week...reset with water change. Never had a problem with this algae.

I think with your bi-monthly aggitation of the gravel.. it should not appear again.

[grey_fox]

Hey Justin,

Yeah, thinking of adding even more NO3, just hope my discus won't be affected though.

[zenscape]

Seems like co2 and fertilisation are well taken care of by you.

Perhaps go back to the basic- are the tank and filter matured enough? You mentioned you did a rescape and washing of filter recently. I had had bad experience of BGA during the 1st and 2nd month of newly set ups or after a major disturbance of the tank.

Consider lower bioload and add in more fast growing plants?

[mordrake]

Hey Justin,

Yeah, thinking of adding even more NO3, just hope my discus won't be affected though.

had BGA in my 6ft too and like you, water circulation, ferts and co2 are good.
so i upped my KNO3 dosage with more regular light gravel vacuuming (weekly) and the problem went away pretty fast.

i'm dosing about 60ppm+ per week for my 6x2x2.5ht... with EI, i just dose away
luckily my 8 adult discus and aro are fine with the EI system

[grey_fox]

Hey there,

Yup, the rescape was done about 1 month back, and the filter ages are 2 months + & 3 months respectively.

All that was changed in the 2028s were the filter wools. I've increased the dosage of NO3 at the moment to 14.14PPM for each session of NO3 dosing.

My live stock in my 5 footer is the following

9 mid sized discus
70 red nose
3 corys
lots of shrimps (malayan, cherry, etc)
3 pencil fish
1 dwarf cichild
2 otos
2 SAEs
1 farlowella

Maybe it can be my plants as most are rather slow growing but don't think i can add more as you can see in the photo below.

[zenscape]

Nice tank you have.

The number of fish is alright in view of a 5 footer.

But if the plants are slow growing and lights are not so intensed, i don't think you should increase No3 and other fertilisation anymore.

[grey_fox]

had BGA in my 6ft too and like you, water circulation, ferts and co2 are good.
so i upped my KNO3 dosage with more regular light gravel vacuuming (weekly) and the problem went away pretty fast.

i'm dosing about 60ppm+ per week for my 6x2x2.5ht... with EI, i just dose away
luckily my 8 adult discus and aro are fine with the EI system

Hey Melvin,

Yeah, gonna slowly increase the dosage of the NO3, planning to hit the 50PPM mark by next week (loosely based on 3 tps [heaped and not levelled]) I do disturb the gravel each week during my WC.

Digging my fingers in and releasing whatever comes out with it and siphoning up the stuff.

I guess what is troubling me is that its becoming visible.

Just to be clear, when you did see the BGA appear, you upped your dosage, likewise disturbed the areas affected (likewise with what I did) and it disappeared?

[mordrake]

Just to be clear, when you did see the BGA appear, you upped your dosage, likewise disturbed the areas affected (likewise with what I did) and it disappeared?

here's what i did

1. siphon BGA infested gravel out (gravel included).
2. siphon all visible gunk on the sandbed. swizel the hose above the gravel and suck up the stuff that floats up (now done weekly).
3. topped up the sandbed with a new pack of lapis
4. upped KNO3 and replanted some glosso and tenellus
5. BGA not seen since and foreground slowly getting covered up

[ranmasatome]

Nice tank you have.

The number of fish is alright in view of a 5 footer.

But if the plants are slow growing and lights are not so intensed, i don't think you should increase No3 and other fertilisation anymore.

why?? its not going to cause algae issues you know..

[grey_fox]

here's what i did

1. siphon BGA infested gravel out (gravel included).
2. siphon all visible gunk on the sandbed. swizel the hose above the gravel and suck up the stuff that floats up (now done weekly).
3. topped up the sandbed with a new pack of lapis
4. upped KNO3 and replanted some glosso and tenellus
5. BGA not seen since and foreground slowly getting covered up

Ah I see now.

My foreground (downoi) has not propagated yet. So I guess I will suck up the affected gravel and either wash it really good and have it re-added back into the tank or use a new (small) pack of fresh lapis.

The scrubbing will begin once the affected portion's gravel is out, followed by siphoning of the BGA as well.

[zenscape]

why?? its not going to cause algae issues you know..

I know. However, given that the rate of growth in his tank is slow, the uptake of nutrient will not be that fast, is it necessary to add in more amount of nutrient than for a high energy tank? I am not sure at which level of No3 his discus will suffer, but to a certain extent it may cause harm than good.

[grey_fox]

All except the different crypts, echi. tropicas, blyxas, mosses are the faster growing ones.

The rest, nanas, ferns are slow but sprouting new shoots & leaves every week or so.

[ranmasatome]

I know. However, given that the rate of growth in his tank is slow, the uptake of nutrient will not be that fast, is it necessary to add in more amount of nutrient than for a high energy tank? I am not sure at which level of No3 his discus will suffer, but to a certain extent it may cause harm than good.

well.. his tank most probably isnt getting enough since its BGA infested.. but Yeah.. i can see your point about not adding TOO much but that has got to be a very very high level and no one is reccomending him taht level right?..

[Plantbrain]

With lower light. slower growers etc, you can dose less and likely should, no need to waste the ferts either.........

30-40ppm weekly is more than enough for most tanks.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[primavera]

Hmm, could it be that there are just different strains of BGA out there, and this could be a more resistant strain? I mean, they are all bacteria right, and its a well known fact that they evolve/develop resistance pretty well. Just look at antibiotic resistance from common pathogens.

The 'lack of fast growers' track seems to be a plausible problem/solution too, as my tank which has a chronic infestation is a very slow growing tank too.