Black Brush Algae (BBA) and CO2

[Plantbrain]

Well.. What can I say.. fishes are now swimming near the top daily with fishes leaping out of the tank. What would you do? Continue to bring the CO2 down? Okay lets try it. I'll continue to bring the PH down with CO2 and see what happens. Btw, what is the interval like? Add more CO2 and wait for 1 week and drop more or drop daily until I see BBA drops dead or turn white?

Forgot to mention that the new Java leaves seems to be BBA free.. Or perhaps just not yet infected. I'll monitor their progress.

PS: Its not a torrent on the surface but I can't say anything about under the surface. Should be fine.. the BBA on the leaves are well.. swaying.. lol

If you have new java fern leaves, then the BBA is on the mend.
Add more surface movement.

Yes, do this slowly when you reduce the ph, add more CO2.
Never do this fast.

You can also add Seachem Excel to beat the BBA back in addition.
Generally look at plants and fish, not at algae for CO2 additions, they will respond before the BBA will.

Plants will grow and pearl well, seems like the Java fern is bouncing back fom the low CO2 levels you had.

That is classic sign of low CO2(poor java fern growth, blackened etc, same with poor moss growth)

I think you are likely pretty close to having things done well.

Add more surface movement
Add a few SAE's
Add some SeaChem Excel at 2x the rec dosage
Prune infected leaves
Reduce lighting/duration if CO2 cannot be addressed
Make sure CO2/KH/pH are really correct throughout the 24 cycle.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Sleepy_lancs]

Add more surface movement? Does fans do the job? Or could I have my Skimmer be functional during light hours?

In fact my crypts are melting over the addition CO2.. Well I think its normal.. I'll hope it bounces back as well.

I understand that shrimps don't do well with Excel, so I'll hold that as the last resort.

The new leaves have been there before I added more CO2 I think.

Anyway, I space the change in CO2 every 2 days until I see some white stuff I suppose. Anyway, the tank now seems to have thread algae booming. That only means my shimps should have been wiped out and there is an unbalance in my nutrients. Any comments?

[Plantbrain]

With all these algae/plant health issues and having shrimps etc, you certainly have something very wrong going on, you have to agree to that.
You can do water changes and EI, that will rule out anything else but CO2.

From there, adjust the spray bar to increase flow across the surface.
Add more CO2 to account tfor the lost here.

Fans, skimmers etc will not do.
You need current and to mix the water good.

Then you can adjust the CO2 and add more.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Sleepy_lancs]

Hi Tom,

Yeap. I have been following the EI using it as a benchmark except 50% water change I didn't do (I do weekly 25% water change). Refer to first post on my dosing. Which part did I do wrong?

Oh.. if you talk about water mixing (not on the surface), yeap... those have been taken care of.. look at my diagram. Unless you want me to add more outlet. The out co2 is well distributed. The outlet are positioned to do that. Reason for such a design was that there is a piece of large bogwood on the left hand middle of the tank. Sorry, I mistook your water movement mentioned was the top surface, thats why I talked about fan and skimmer.

[ForestG]

This is the first week when my BBA stopped growing and I am . It is still there in my home tank on some plants but I am going to get rid of most of it tonight before the 50pct water change.
I just added an additional powerhead two weeks ago to increase the water circulation in the tank. I also slightly increased the Kh by changing the RO/tap ratio in the water change and I guess this helped too by increasing the amount of CO2 disolved in the tank's water while maintaining the same Ph level as before.
I might be just lucky, I do not really know, but I was just about to give up after three months of constant battle.
However this is just a battle and the war isn't over by far. My office 330liters tank is full of it and I have just added a strong powerhead last Thu. Keeping my fingers crossed. There I cannot change/increase the Kh as I am not using an RO unit.

[PeterGwee]

This is the first week when my BBA stopped growing and I am . It is still there in my home tank on some plants but I am going to get rid of most of it tonight before the 50pct water change.
I just added an additional powerhead two weeks ago to increase the water circulation in the tank. I also slightly increased the Kh by changing the RO/tap ratio in the water change and I guess this helped too by increasing the amount of CO2 disolved in the tank's water while maintaining the same Ph level as before.
I might be just lucky, I do not really know, but I was just about to give up after three months of constant battle.
However this is just a battle and the war isn't over by far. My office 330liters tank is full of it and I have just added a strong powerhead last Thu. Keeping my fingers crossed. There I cannot change/increase the Kh as I am not using an RO unit.

It has nothing to do with the KH. Just add more current using your powerhead and then add morre CO2 slowly till it stops growing. Once that happens, you can trim them off. The more circulation/current provided by the powerhead helps mix the CO2 faster when compared to little current (a slug of high CO2 would move slowly around the tank and does not mix that fast). You still need to add enough CO2 by cranking it up slowly when maintaining enough surface movement for the fish.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[SmallFish]

Hi guys,

This is also the first week that my tank is 'free' of BBA
I did what is commonly recommended = BLACKOUT! Cleared as much as i could, then total blackout for 3.5 days, 50% WC, introduced stable CO2 (was using DIY before), added KNO3 and P, and lo & behold, the remaining BBA that wasn't cleared before were .... gone. Yes, gone!
Some hair algae were removed after blackout and they never came back.
Only my APP suffered, the rest are slowly being nursed back to health.

Hopefully, my war is over

[Sweet Angel]

If you can add strong current, does it mean you guys don't keep stem plants?
Cause strong current will make stem plants look awful, being blow by the current...
Or you place the filter / pump outlet in the foreground area, but we can see it clearly & makes overall aquascape not so beautiful...?

[PeterGwee]

If you can add strong current, does it mean you guys don't keep stem plants?
Cause strong current will make stem plants look awful, being blow by the current...
Or you place the filter / pump outlet in the foreground area, but we can see it clearly & makes overall aquascape not so beautiful...?

No, you don't need very strong currents to grow plants or have good circulation. Just make sure they are evenly spread out and circulates well.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[Sleepy_lancs]

Today, I added 20 ML of Excel into my tank. Well.. most of my ottos didn't make it. I rescued 6 of them. Hope they survive in another tank. With that sad stuff aside, I see my BBA also bubbling. I suppose thats a good sign? Anyway, I will continue to add Excel everyday at the above mentioned and see how its gonna be like in a week's time.

[SmallFish]

Hi S_lancs,

It's been really interesting and edifying to read this thread which u hv started, although i am sorry and share your frustration. As I mentioned in an earlier thread, I had the same problem. But after a blackout, the bba seems to have taken a beating, still early days yet, but so far so good.
I'll update the progress as often as I can, just so that we can share experiences and also encouragement.
Currently, my CO2 is on 10hrs for 4~5 bps, with diffuser placed in front of the filter rainbar outlet. I do not do any measurements but it seems to me the CO2 rate could be at the max level as I can see the fishes swimming / congregating near the powerhead outflow area (i added this in for extra circulation).
Unfortunately, I have not been successful (yet) in getting those pearlings.
Perhaps, my fert is on the low side or could be insufficient. Currently doing 1/4 teaspoon of KNO3 2 times a week, 1 ml of Seachem P, and Tropica for trace elements.
Maybe I can experiment with the KNO3 dosage, to 3 times a week, ceteris paribus, just to see if there are any changes/effect.

Just hang in there bro, I m sure we will win this battle. Else, we will just 'nuke' them.

Cheers,
Joe

[Sleepy_lancs]

Hi Joe,

No worries, I have live with BBA for close to 2 years. I just won over BBA in my Nana tank. Although that was nothing worth celebrating until perhaps another 2 months to confirm BBA no show . Tank is 3ft with 2 x 30 watts FL light. Dosing 10 PPM NO3 and 2 PPM PO4 twice a week.

[Plantbrain]

I had it for a few years and no one knew anything, all speculation about it and well, there was not really any internet then also

But it's all CO2 related, no pearling? That's a classic sign you don't have enough CO2 mixing, if you do something like EI, there should be little hiolding the plants back from growing, all that is left is CO2.

Now a well mixed CO2 , flow patterns etc can do more for you, it's not all about adding more, it's also how you add it that counts also.

You should not just "wing it", you need to watch the CO2 carefully for awhile and dial it in good, any poor growth etc, add more CO2/do a water change etc, add more ferts etc.

Don't neglect your tank for awhile and then have a good established BBA infestation, attack asap.

Don't stop either, beat it back with trimming, good plant growth/CO2 levels, Add Excel at 1-2x rec dose.
Blackouts never seemed to be effective with BBA, even after 5-7 days which is starting to get rough for many plant species.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Sleepy_lancs]

Okay, today is a bad day. I had overdo my CO2 inject. All my fishes were almost dead when I reach home. I disconnected all my stuff and hope for the best tomorrow

[ForestG]

Okay, today is a bad day. I had overdo my CO2 inject. All my fishes were almost dead when I reach home. I disconnected all my stuff and hope for the best tomorrow

Sleepy_lancs - you better add quickly an airpump/airline to your tank otherwise it is quite possible that your fishes will not make it through tomorrow. Sorry for offtopic.

This algae is actually the worst of them all. Not only that the plants are looking bad with this stuff on but also it is the most difficult to get rid of.

I did not trust in the bening that this "plague" is all about CO2 - as Plantbrain says everywhere. I had increased my CO2 level but that was only apparent because - although the Ph probe was on the opposite side of the tank than my CO2 internal reactor - the CO2 diffusion through the entire tank was neither good nor enough. Only after increasing the water movemement through the tank the BBA stopped gowing.
I do have stem plants as well which grow well now but their stem is not vertical any longer. Despite I am happy because my battle seems over.

[Sleepy_lancs]

Well... Just an update. The Congos are okay. I lost a few Ottos. But overall not much damage done. I'll do an update later perhaps in another thread. Thanks for those concerned remarks. Very much appreciate. Okay.. back to BBA battle. The crypt tank still didn't show much improvements. I'll update more later in the week.

[Sunfire]

I have a similar battle with BBA... but after dosing seachem excel locally in the problem spots... it has turned grey/white.

[Plantbrain]

Excel will kill BBA, there's little doubt there.
Be careful to increase current if you add more CO2.

Excel only kills what is there, it does solve the CO2 "gas" issue although it does add some carbon.

You should focus your efforts on the CO2, decent current flow patterns etc.

Good nutrients elsewhere and that will do it.


Regards,
Tom Barr

[Ah_ZhaN]

Excel will kill BBA, there's little doubt there.
Be careful to increase current if you add more CO2.

Excel only kills what is there, it does solve the CO2 "gas" issue although it does add some carbon.

You should focus your efforts on the CO2, decent current flow patterns etc.

Good nutrients elsewhere and that will do it.


Regards,
Tom Barr

Hi Tom, regarding the issue of decent current flow and surface movement, is it possible for you to show us a pictorial demostration or illustration ??

[Plantbrain]

Everyone's tank and hardscape etc is different.
That influeneces flow, simply think about ways to increase flow in your tank, it's not rocket science, just play with the spray bar, output nozzle etc and get some surface movement as well.

Regards,
Tom Barr