Discus loosing scales... food problem?

**DazzleDiscus** · 9th Sep 2006, 23:14

Hey. I have one turquiose Discus, a little over a year old now. He's in a 30gal tank with two cories and two cardinal tetras.
I've noticed last week that some of his scales are missing on the upper sides of his body.
This has happened before, only a lot worse then this. I had called a LFS and the owner said it was the cause of hard water. So I did a 30% water change with spring water, and he started the slow growing process...

I could always do that again, but I recently remembered (

) that the food that I prepared for him is a year old this month...
So my mom and I were thinking if that could have added to the problem if not starting it...
I don't think I want to prepare the food again... but if I could make a smaller amount that would be fine.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what food to feed my little Dazzle?
Or any other suggestions for that matter!

**XnSdVd** · 10th Sep 2006, 00:35

Hmm... info like your kH, pH and temperature would be useful.

**DazzleDiscus** · 10th Sep 2006, 07:48

gH and kH are both 4*.
pH is around 6.5-7.0
Temperature is 85*
Ammonia - 0
nitrite - 0
nitrate - a little below 20ppm.
phosphate - .5 - 1.0

**celticfish** · 10th Sep 2006, 17:34

your water PH is good enough.
do you have dirft wood in your tank?
he might be getting spooked and dash across the tank bashing themselves on whatever.
mine still do the in a bare tank and hurt themselves on the heater or filter in/out-take.
are the scale loss in a streaking pattern?
if so, i highly suspect its the dashing and banging onto objects in the tank.

your food shouldn't be a problem if they aren't defrosted before.
you may try tetra bits which is what i use.

**StanChung** · 10th Sep 2006, 18:46

Originally Posted by DazzleDiscus

gH and kH are both 4*.
pH is around 6.5-7.0
Temperature is 85*
Ammonia - 0
nitrite - 0
nitrate - a little below 20ppm.
phosphate - .5 - 1.0

Hi Dazzle,

Looks good all round except that it's a bit high for the nitrate.
A level <5ppm is recommended for good appetite.
I presume the food you prepared is a beef heart mix?
That is good enough for them. You may also keep them solely with XXXXXbits but I've found that they sometimes get bored of it.

BTW, is this a planted tank?

**XnSdVd** · 10th Sep 2006, 20:06

Ahh yes... very important that you have plants in there. important no matter what fish you're keeping. They all need to feel secure in a clump of vegetation.

**PeterGwee** · 10th Sep 2006, 20:16

The water is not the issue with your discus. A GH of 4 is not hard in the states. Some places have liquid rock water.

If you feed them with loads of food to beef them up, always do large weekly water changes (50% or more). It is not that much especially since discus folks keeping them in bare tanks do them 2-3x a week. Clean water coupled with good food makes them happy.

Regards
Peter Gwee

**DazzleDiscus** · 11th Sep 2006, 06:00

I'm pretty sure that he hasn't hit anything in the tank. Like I had said, this has happened before. it started out like this, but he soon had multiple spots along the perimeter of his body, on both sides.

yes, the food is a beefheart mixture.
I am using spring water, not my tap water... I haven't used my tap for a while because of the phosphate levels. (the levels in my tank were off the scale!) the hardness is about 5* from the tap. I had lost some guppies while using it. however I don't know if it was the phosphate levels or the hardness. any thoughts?

driftwood? sortof. it's a big plastic piece. the Discus sleeps under it.

I'm kindof new with plants...

I had had some problems with them awhile back, but I changed the lighting and it helped alot. my lighting is on the low side. So far I have some java moss and ferns, two good-sized red lotus plants, and something called a cardinal plant. I added the moss about a month ago. It's slow growing. I don't add fertilizer or CO2.

Do you think that the nitrate levels could be causing this? the only way I could lower them would be with higher water changes, right? I'm only doing 10percent... kind of sad huh?

**DazzleDiscus** · 11th Sep 2006, 06:07

come to think of it, I had been doing larger water changes when I was using my tap (we have well-water) the only fish I saw that were affected were the guppies. and guppies come from hard water sources...

can phosphate levels way beyond 10ppm harm fish?

**DazzleDiscus** · 11th Sep 2006, 06:12

boy... arn't I just full of questions...

**XnSdVd** · 11th Sep 2006, 08:56

Well... hmm.. you got me

But yes, do get more plants and lights. 1 watt of fluorescent lighting per US galon should do for low light plants like mosses and java ferns. There's really no need for CO2 or fertilisation with nitrate levels as high as yours.

**StanChung** · 11th Sep 2006, 09:29

IMHO it's uneaten BH giving rise to bacteria populations increasing which leads to infections. Discus poop after a BH meal is also more potent.

IME Beefheart is the major cause of water deterioration.
Discus breeders change 100-300% water daily because of 2-7 times feeding to plump the fish for sale.
Mine are on drip. 1 cycle a day. No manual WC. Yay!

So if you intend to feed beefheart, I recommend a minimum of 30% WC one hour after you feed. Gravel vacuum while you're at it. A sponge to sweep the slime off the tank walls is good practice.

You have cories that eat scraps, useful.

My friends in Indonesia have raised and bred discus in alkaline water pH8 with gH above 10. Sure they didn't look fantastically happy but they're ok and not sick.
Keep the tank clean of the leftover food. Discus are messy eaters and bacteria populations can explode suddenly because of the warmer water.

**XnSdVd** · 12th Sep 2006, 02:46

What exactly's so special about beefheart? the protein content? I've been thinking to let my bettas try some..

**DazzleDiscus** · 12th Sep 2006, 06:56

I have the same questions as XnSdVd... Are there other meat foods that I could feed my Discus that aren't as potient as beefheart? I'm upgrading my waterchanges to a higher level...

**lyh** · 12th Sep 2006, 11:21

Originally Posted by XnSdVd

What exactly's so special about beefheart? the protein content? I've been thinking to let my bettas try some..

Yup the protein content is high. It is commonly used to increase the thickness of discus which could not be achieved through feeding bits alone. And of course it is cheap.

**StanChung** · 12th Sep 2006, 11:25

Originally Posted by lyh

Yup the protein content is high. It is commonly used to increase the thickness of discus which could not be achieved through feeding bits alone. And of course it is cheap.

Ditto! erm spare parts are not fit for human consumption in most countries...

So if you want dinner plate sized discus you need to be very diligent.

However for your betta it's possible but might get constipated!

**DazzleDiscus** · 13th Sep 2006, 01:12

so if I do a mixture of different food, such as beefheart mixture, frozen shrimp, tetrabits, and freezedried blood worms that should be sufficent? and i shouldn't feed him any one of these foods as his only food source. correct?

**DazzleDiscus** · 13th Sep 2006, 09:29

I am also hoping to feed him some live food as well (baby fishies!)

**StanChung** · 13th Sep 2006, 11:14

Well it is up to you to feed them anything they will eat!

They're quite picky! You can blend all that together except for the bloodworms.
Bloodworms are not recommended as they harbour pathogens.[but i still feed them that-some UV'ed frozen cubes]

Put the blend into a bag and press iinto a flat 1/2 inch burger! Then freeze it. Once frozen, take a chopper and mallet and whack out cubes for easy meal portions.

I like to add one clove of garlic to 1 kg BHor pork heart + 1 teaspoon spirulina and a little multi-vitamin.

**XnSdVd** · 13th Sep 2006, 13:34

Garlic?! what does that do?

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