Question regarding SAE

[chows99]

Hi guys,

yesterday, i been to biotope to purchase more fish for my newly formed tank.
I bought 10 rummy nose, 4 yamotos and 5 SAEs.

My existing tank alredi got 10 neon tetras n 3 guppies. After i put the new fishes inside, they seem to get on pretty well.

But today, 1 guppy, 1 rummy nose and 1 tetra died, to my bereavement. I dont know what happened, but is it due to the SAE ? Will they attack other fishes ? My SAEs are rather small in size but I really wanted to know is my combo of fishes compatible ?

And is 5 SAEs rather too many, since i got 4 yamatos, to eat the algae ?

Thanks for helping some1 who have lost 3 fishes ...

[Orion]

You see the dead fishes body muscus still intact? eg feels slippery or certain portion of body patches.

SAE sometimes freeloading the fishes muscus when fishes are asleep. It maybe due to hunger.

Care to shown picture of the dead fishes to confirm?

[wasabi8888]

How long was the tank set up before you put the fishes in?

[chows99]

the tank was setup about 2 weeks. I have checked the fishes, the the guppy n rummy nose don't hv any visible damages on their body. But for the tetra, there is part of the body, looks injured or decomposed. But the tetra's bosy was onl found 2 hrs ago.

If thats the case, is havin 5 SAEs too much ? Shld i give some away ?

[chows99]

sorry for not able to provide pictures as I've thrown the fishes away.

[medicineman]

Unless you are doing a biotope tank, there is no point in keeping too much SAE, especially those that gets too big. The fish is too overrated and I assure you that. SAE (true ones and not flying fox) are a big NO for any moss tank. Even a well-fed SAE will still eat away your moss, leaving a trail of bald moss behind. Some soft leaved plants (hygro, aromatica, stellata) are also nipped, especially when your tank is too clean of algae and fibre food is not given enough. Adult/big SAE are even nastier because they can eat those soft leaves more easily.

I still keep SAE and CAE in one of my tank because there is not enough algae for them to graze on that they remained very small, changing so little in a course of one year.

SAE and neon is OK so far as I experienced in my tank. I've never lost any neon (14 of them) due to predation with two SAE inside 20 gallon tank.

Do yourself a favor, trade some of them back and get some ottos in exchange (esp if you like to keep moss).

[chows99]

Oh ... so ottos better ? So currently i got 5 SAEs, rather small. How many shld i retain ?

[medicineman]

I did not catch your tank size and specs earlier. Hard to say if you have enough or too much algae eating fish. If you can keep your tank stable enough (easy to do on medium or low light setup with pressurized CO2) so it is quite algae free, there is no need to keep too many of algae eating fish. Should your tank remains relatively algae-free, SAE will stay small for very long time (I proved it in a year).

I keep 6 otto and 5 CAE in my 1000L tank because it is quite big and high light setup. Some algae are not eaten by SAE, CAE and otto. Better to prevent than to cure algae infestation. Otto for a fish which stay smaller than your pinky finger, does relatively no harm even to your delicate plants. Just be sure to acclimate them properly as I have seen quite common heavy otto casualties.

[valice]

I believe there is nothing to do with your SAE.
Most important question is whether your tank is capable of handling the bioload you are having now.

Even if you do not have the 5 SAEs, you will still have deaths if your filter cannot take the increase in ammonia and nitrite, which is lethal even at small amounts...

Your tank is currently still cycling imo. Adding 19 fishes at a go is a definite no-no if your tank is new. You should expect more deaths in the coming days... Till your filter can take a certain load.

[medicineman]

If it concerning fish deaths and not just SAE, I also would say that 2 weeks is a very short time for a tank to form enough beneficial bacteria to the balance. A classic mistake by adding too many fish in very short time, without proper quarantine as well.

[chows99]

hmmm, ok, i will take that into my consideration. But I really saw 1 SAE attacking my tetra ...

[Quixotic]

Define "attacking". SAE are territorial fishes, meaning they will chase away fishes that infringe into their territory, and that is about all the "attacking" it will do. It won't cause any damage to the fishes.

[chows99]

ok, how abt false SAEs ? i heard false SAEs r aggresive n may not eat algae. the way to differeniate is if the black stripe across ends before the tail.... if like this my SAEs r false ... but i bought them from biotope leh ...

[medicineman]

Bigger SAE (not the fake "flying fox") are only slightly territorial. generally they are peaceful and will only harras - just a bit other fellow SAE. They need grazing space for algae after all. Generally in well-fed tank this behaviour almost gone completely because adult/big SAE tends to wait for feeding time, not relying their lives on solely algae anymore.

Yes, one way to differentiate SAE to fying for is the marking. Flying fox has dark marking on their dorsal fin, and the marking and colouring on the sides are somewhat different too.

[valice]

In Singapore, it is easy to get true SAE than false SAE. So yours should be true SAE.

[michael lai]

Hi Chows99,
A true SAE has the black stripe running all the way to the end of tail which includes the transparent part. I believe the fishes died firstly because the tank is new and also stress due to transportation from being caught and transported to your place. This is common so I won't look too much into it. I have a 3" SAE together with my ember tetras and they are cordial towards each other. Lastly, kindly refrain from short hand for the benefit of others. Thanks and have fun.