How to make 'red' stem plants become extremely red in colour ?

[Ah_ZhaN]

Hi AQ, I have a doubt about making 'red' stem plants become extremely red in colour.

How to achieve that results? Is it a question of lighting, liquid iron dosage, substrate fertilization, pruning method or any other factors that I need to consider as well ?

Thanks and regards,
zhan

[samuelgoh]

i feel that iron dosage is a myth!
cos the real important crunch is intense light!
I notice this when I was trying to improve the redness of my plants recently.

Scenario 1.
- Dosing more iron, same light.
- results = no change

Scenario 2.
- Plants grew taller, the higher part, which is quite near the light, becomes intensely red! as long as the plant is near the light (which translate to higher intensity of light for the plant), it became VERY RED!
- Results = redder plants.

I also pm a bro here, whom i got my red plants from.
He too suggest high intensity of light and iron dosing.
But my feel is that the light plays a much bigger part.

right now saving for a 4x39W T5 to replace the 2x55W PL for my 3ft tank.
Can only confirm the findings after I get the light.

How bout other bros here ?

[ranmasatome]

its an indirect relationship.. its not the lights directly.. its the lights causing another reaction that makes the plant red.. so.. ya.. indirectly.. its the lights.

[PeterGwee]

Light drives growth rate and adding more light makes things grow faster. Plants need time to create chlorophyll and thus exposing the red pigments of the plants before the chlorophyll is fully formed. Going with lots of light is a recipe for disaster if you do not keep up with the nutrients and CO2.

Regards,
Peter Gwee

[andrewtyr]

Coupled with high heat from the lights which drives up the temperatures, it spurs algae growth if filtration does not keep the dirt away

[Rupert]

The tanks that I have seen really deep reds to the base of the stems have had a lot of light, ie 4 to 5 feet tank with 1000+ watts, one memorable 5' tank had 1200 watts, [8 x 150 watt MH’s]. I was amazed with the growth, I saw it most weeks for about a year!

I was running approx 600 watts on my 4 footer and can say the light really brings out the colors, however as mentioned by previous posts, that everything needs to be balanced my CO2 usage was phenomenal, dosing goes up proportionally, I was buying 3 ltrs Macro & 1 lt Micros of Dr Malick’s ferts all the time....

[Ah_ZhaN]

Thank you guys for the valueable inputs.

Is there any thumb of rule as in how much wattage of lights per gallon[WPG (US)] in order to bring out the red pigments of the leaves ?

[ranmasatome]

No there isnt.There is no formula for this.If you want to use high light to drive the plants to turn red..just be sure to keep up with everything else. Trust me...you'll be broke real and bored of your tank soon enough when you realise how much more effort it takes to maintain it.

[StanChung]

The only advice I can offer is that you do 'noon' burst for 2-4 hours to stimulate your plants for the reds. Set on a different timer and will save you electricity and fert needs etc. MH lighting would be best suited for this.

Normally to get red plants really red, you would be looking at 3WPG+ for a 200-300 liter tank.

[ranmasatome]

wooooo MH... nice and strong..

[Ah_ZhaN]

Hmm... so should I increase the wattage of lights(presently is 3.6WPG(US))? Or change the lighting from PL to T5 / MH(while keeping the same wattage) ?

[Rupert]

Wattage if I remember correctly is just about the energy consumed [1 watt = joule per second], rather than the intensity or volume of light coming out. Light coming out is more about lumens per watt and there is probably quite a few good threads on this already on the forum. Each light type has it advantages, and for me, MH’s have the necessary luminous intensity to bring or drive out the red in plants. MH's produce a lot of heat, T5's are cooler, ie can avoid a chiller.

DEFINITIONS
Luminance - (in a given direction, at a given point of a real or imaginary surface). Quantity defined by the formula,
where the luminous flux is transmitted by an elementary beam passing through the given point and propagating in the solid angle containing the given direction; the area of a section of that beam containing the given point; the angle between the normal to that section and the direction of the beam. It is expressed in candela per square metre (cd/m2).

Luminous efficacy - (of a source). Quotient of the luminous flux emitted by the power consumed by the source.
It is expressed in lumen per watt (lm/W).

Luminous flux - Quantity derived from radiant flux by evaluating the radiation according to its action upon the
CIE standard photometric observer. It is expressed in lumen (lm).

Luminous intensity - (of a source in a given direction). Quotient of the luminous flux leaving the source and propagated in the element of solid angle containing the given direction, by the element of solid angle. It is expressed in candela (cd).

Luminous intensity - Distribution of the luminous intensities of a lamp or luminaire in all spatial directions.
distribution

[Shadow]

Does it mean that t5/HO is actaully more efficient than MH? though it take more space.

Which parameter is contribute to the penetration power? Just wondering if T5 and MH have the same water penetration power.

[StanChung]

Hi Shadow,
Depends on how high you hang your MH IMHO.[or other types of lighting]

With my 150WMH[+2x36Wpl] at 10-14" ft above water level, I have no issues temperature as stated. You have to hang it that high or else you will get cone effect on your tanks. It's a spotlight after all. I only use a fan for my tank cooling. 24.8-27.8C depending on season, same as when i was cramming 8X30Wfl's.
[so debunk that temp is raised by MH myth, totally busted]

At 14" ht from water it's still penetrating. Try hanging T5's at that height and you'll see there's no comparison. T 5's are still fluorescent lighting, meaning it has no penetrating power. It's more intense than T8's because of the higher wattage[as in T5 HO or VHO] and IF paired with superior reflectors.

T'5, T8's, PL's [all fluoros] still has to be close to the water 4-6" to compare in intensity with MH, if you hang it 14 inches high you end up lighting your room instead. [MH lighting is glaring in a sitting room]

Comparing MH and T5 is like comparing a butter knife with a spoon. Both can cut butter but one has sharper edges.

[Plantbrain]

I've done just fine with 2.5 w/gal:



You get faster growth with more light, you also have faster uptake of NO3, which if you lower it and maintain it at a low level, say less than 3-4ppm, you will enhance the red appearance, you do not ever actually "add more Red pigment- anthrocyanin", you merely remove the green masking from Chlorophyll that allows the red to show through.

More red= more Nitrogen stress, it's not a function of health, rather and function of plant stress. Plants are okay with it as long as they can handle the lower ranges and you keep the NO3 from bottoming out...........

As fas as light:



That is from 22 ft!

The surface Ludwigia repens is green..................and near soil which is rich in nitrogen, this came from rocks and gravel, very N poor and slow growing.

You can choose plants that are normally red, you can use photoshop to high light the reds, you can use lower lighting which allows you to maintain and low residual NO3 level much easier than high light, which is why many fail over time with higher light and why many with less light still manage to have nice reds as well.

While folks with HLD(high light disease) like to support their model with observations, the models they propose do not explain why lower light tanks also yield excellent red colors as well.

HLD causes more heat, more cost, more junk over the tank, more work.
Some do not mind that trade off, that's fine too, but many do not like those things, so they should consider less.

Simply changing the color temps of the lighting can accent the colors as we perceive them also.

This is, after all, about our perception of color, not the plants.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[StanChung]

I don't use photoshop and my L arcuata is very red.
Ludwigia sp like the one you have there is like a chilly red.
IMO Med high to high light is a must or else only the tips will be red.
Some bulbs kill reds especially green/blue colour cast bulbs.
My Rotala macrandra was so red it was ridiculous as everything paled in comparison.

Anyway, I'm over my red plant phase. I'm now into my red fish phase.

[Plantbrain]

James' Macrandra is very red and he has 2.5 w/gal also, I've grown the L acurata very red, but it required you to not have it shaded over by other plants, given enough space, it does quite well.


Here it is:



Again, 55w over a 25 gal tank.
2.2 w/gal

You'll note some greenish color inside the bunches, namely from shading, rather than intensity.

Red fish are nice, coral red pencils, Red cherry barbs, Rose lines, Discus, Rednecks, Red aro's, Red fin plecos.



Regards,
Tom Barr

[StanChung]

I definitely agree with plant it directly under the lights. Red plants I transplant from one high light tank to another tank that is shaded a little came out greenish.

[Roy1967]

I gree with all who said light. I don't use any form of liquid fertilisation, only CO2 injection. See the resul of my Tiger Lotus.

[Rupert]

my Crypt Undulata, six inches away form the MH's,