Why did my Apistogramma baenschi "Inca" die?

[dh101]

So sad, I bought an Apistogramma inca a few days ago and now the male got killed by the female (i think)....

Can anyone advise? Really feel sian... :'(

[genes]

Hi dh101

Hope this incident dosen't spoil the image of Apistogrammas for you.

Couple of questions
1) Did you see the female acting aggressively towards the male? Usually, the female being smaller do no harm to the bigger male except tear his finnage during fights.
2) Any visible injury on the male? Any sunken belly?
3) Was the male active after a day or 2 upon your release into the tank?
4) What is your tank setup? Any hiding place available?
5) Are you using ADA aquasoil?

[dh101]

Hi genes,

1) On occasion, yes, but generally they were quite peaceful exploring the tank on their own. When they fought, there was no prolonged chasing.

2) I could see a small red area on one side of the male's body. I wonder if it is caused by the female's aggression (seen her ram into the side of the male a few times). However, the redness seem to come from the internal, as there don't seem to be any external injury on the skin and scales. There was no sunken belly.

3) They were both active, however the female was more brave. The male seemed to prefer staying near the wood and depressions in the substrate.

4) The tank is a 2 feet tank with moss on driftwood and java fern. There is a lot of hiding places considering including a semi spheric cone for them to hide in if they really want privacy. Filtration is overflow with a rainbar to bring the water back. The raining effect provides lots of aeration as can be seen in the tiny bubbles under the bright light. The current is very gentle as the water is moved by the smallest ehiem pump availabe in lfs. I also put a satchet of packaged ketapang to provide some blackwater effect but I'm not sure if there is any effect (maybe I should put more?)

5) I'm using ADA africana aquasoil (light brown).


Any idea what went wrong?

[genes]

Can't seem to find anything terribly wrong. Your tank is an aged tank right? Setup and tank size is definately suitable for them. Unless your female is breeding and did not consider the male as the dorminant one, she should not get overly aggressive with the male.

I have experimented with introducing males to a lone female with eggs and this intrusion of the female territory will usually cause a far more serious fight that can cause death. So, i reckon its unlikely that your female killed the male. But then again, i maybe wrong though.

Are you using the oceanfree ketapang leaves (miracle leaves)? I would advised not to use that. Their products never fail to dissapoint me. This product make the water extremely black. Not sure how soft it will make the water go, but it felt really uncomfortable for me to see my tank pitch black. Like a cup of super concentrated english tea. Those big ketapang leaves from C328 or sera morena blackwater extract would be a better choice. Friends and i are using that.

Also, it could be due to some internal parasite which we failed to see when we do the purchase. This can sometimes be difficult to identify during the early stages. The male seems good when we were staring at him that time. Perhaps you may want to go back to C328 and see if you can work anything out with them. They still have Inca there.

[benny]

The correct name for this species is Apistogramma baenschi "Inca". Inca on it's own is not a valid scientific name.

From the sound of it, the red blotch on the side seems like septicemia, which is blood poisoning from bacteria. The red blotch should be a secondary infection/condition from other causes, which we cannot determine from an internet discussion. Visible symtoms of septicemia includes streaks of blood in fins, red areas on their body and eyes as well. The fish will also become lethargic. If the disease has reached vital organs, the fish may exhibit dropsy-like symptoms as body fluids leak into the abdomen.

In extreme cases, Hemorrhagic Septicemia can be very contagious. There is also a Viral form. Please take care to isolate the sick fish. Medication is not very effective and the primary infection cannot be traced easily. So you need to treat for the primary infection as well as septicemia. In general, broad base antibiotic is effective to a certain extend. Maracyn-2 is one of the medication used, but is unfortunately not commonly available.

Causes of septicemia are usually environmental - water quality, stress, etc. Fishes suffering in the early stages will not be obvious. However, you male specimen seems to be quiet and hiding. That's a sign.

Hope the above information was helpful.

Cheers,

[dh101]

Can't seem to find anything terribly wrong. Your tank is an aged tank right? Setup and tank size is definately suitable for them. Unless your female is breeding and did not consider the male as the dorminant one, she should not get overly aggressive with the male.

I have experimented with introducing males to a lone female with eggs and this intrusion of the female territory will usually cause a far more serious fight that can cause death. So, i reckon its unlikely that your female killed the male. But then again, i maybe wrong though.

Are you using the oceanfree ketapang leaves (miracle leaves)? I would advised not to use that. Their products never fail to dissapoint me. This product make the water extremely black. Not sure how soft it will make the water go, but it felt really uncomfortable for me to see my tank pitch black. Like a cup of super concentrated english tea. Those big ketapang leaves from C328 or sera morena blackwater extract would be a better choice. Friends and i are using that.

Also, it could be due to some internal parasite which we failed to see when we do the purchase. This can sometimes be difficult to identify during the early stages. The male seems good when we were staring at him that time. Perhaps you may want to go back to C328 and see if you can work anything out with them. They still have Inca there.

Do you mean if the male is not dominent then the female may get overly aggressive with him? Of the two, I would think the female was more dominent in the tank although she is definately smaller in size.

Yes that;s the miracle leave i used . I didn't make my water black unfortunately, I wonder if it got absorbed into the aquasoil.

I doubt if they 328 will work anything out with me, esp when the boss only gave me a $2 discount :P. I might go just to check out the new inkas, but I am a bit wary of getting new fish in as I'm not sure whether the water got the viral form of emorrhagic Septicemia that Benny pointed out could be the cause of fish death. So far, I've been observing the female to see if her mood changes. So far so good, so keeping my fingers crossed.

[dh101]

Thanks benny, you certainly gave me lots of keywords to Google .

Do you feel I should throw out all the wood and plants already in there as they could have the bacteria on them?

Also, should I introduce anti-bacteria solutions to the whole tank as a safety precaution?

[genes]

Do you mean if the male is not dominent then the female may get overly aggressive with him? Of the two, I would think the female was more dominent in the tank although she is definately smaller in size.

Yes that;s the miracle leave i used . I didn't make my water black unfortunately, I wonder if it got absorbed into the aquasoil.

Only when the female breeds and if the male is not the dorminant male, the female will go all out to deter the non dorminant male within her territory.

Probably your packet of miracle leaf have been used many times before and been leached off the tanin. I used a new packet and never used it since, dun think your aquasoil will absorbed the tanin. Another reason could be the charcoal media in your filther.

[dh101]

I did use a new packet and not one that had been used before . I guess maybe every batch of the product is not the same.

I get what you mean by the bullying of non-dominent male now. Thanks for the tip.