ADA style stand and frameless tank

[tcampbell]

Well I decided to get rid of my smaller tank (actually not get rid of, but rather convert it to a turtle tank for my daughter as her turtle is growing fast and will need more room soon).

I went to the local shops about getting a stand and tank I wanted, but the cost was too high and the stick on wood coating just didn't appeal to me. So I made my own.

The pictures of the stand in progress are attached. And I will completely update when I can.







Missing is the door and the paint of course. I will be painting it with the base coat tomorrow and hanging the door after that. The stand is 61cm X 41cm by 84cm high. The tank will be the 61 X 41 x 45cm high.

Have the soil read and waiting (ADA) the filter Eheim 2215 from big tank being moved over and a new Eheim 2217 added to large tank. Co2 5 lbs ready and wood / stones being bought. I will put date pictures when I can. Just doing wood working in a small apartment in Taiwan with a 2 feet wide balcony takes a lot of time and makes a lot of mess.

For this size tank, how much light do you recommend. 4 tubes of 18 watt should be enough or up it to 6 tubes of 18?

Thomas

[David Moses Heng]

just wondering what material did you use for your stand?

[brianclaw]

Looks like MDF to me.
6 tubes sounds good, and if it's too much in the beginning, you can always turn off some light. That's easier than having to add more lights at a later stage.

[richietay]

Nice worksmanship.

Have you tested whether it can withstand certain weight? Look forward for the completion.

[benny]

Hi Thomas,

I've upload your pictures into your personal gallery in AQ for you. I've also hotlinked the images directly into your thread. I've also moved the thread to equipment section as it's dealing with furniture rather than aquascaping as your title suggest.

Do keep us updated on this exciting project!

Cheers,

[tcampbell]

Benny - Thanks. I not not even realize I had a personal gallery. Guess I haven't been using the forum to it's full potential.

Brian - you are correct. It is MDF 3/4" = 18mm MDF boards. Easy to find a B&Q or Homebox here. Good weight and strong, easy to work with though creates a great deal of dust when sanding and cutting.

Richietay - I have tested it with my weight, 76kg and no problems. I am still planning on adding an inside back support brace (T shaped) the height and width of the stand and two side braces all of which aren't usually on the stands my by my LFS, and the wood is no where near as thick.

I am not sure how much I have to test it with. What would the weight of the tank be. 10mm glass 61cm by 41 cm by 45cm high, with stand height of substrate, drift wood, water and plants.

I have about 250~300 pounds of weighs plates here I can place on it to test for sure and stand on that as well if necessary, though that would be a balancing act.

[tcampbell]

Well the first coat (of two) of a grey colored oil based paint is down. Once that is dried it will be lightly sanded and then repainted. The sanded again and then a coat of spray paint to finish it off.
Haven't fully decided on the final color yet though. Been looking at the grey as I was painting it and like that, then again, I say a blue grey color of spray paint, similiar to a few ADA stands I have seen and I like that as well. Of course there is the standard black that will go with any room and disapear into the background once the tank is set up.

[tcampbell]

Doors hung, stand finished now just need a final color.


Not sure if I will drill holes in the sides for tubes or not. I left a part opened in the middle back so the tubes and co2 can fit up that way even when it is against a wall. will save extra holes.


Can always add them later if necessary.


Tank should be 29 gallons or 110 litres, and 110 litres = 110 KG of water, plus substrate, rocks, drift wood and the weight of the tank itself. I have tested it with my wife and I sitting on the stand = 130KG approx with no problems at all.

There is a cross brace along the back top inside of the stand and a down brace along the back straight town to the base of the tank on the inside forming a sort of T for added security. But you can't see that in any of the pictures due to the angle.


How much would a 10mm glass tank 61 by 40 by 45 cm weigh? Always curious. what if it was 8mm glass?

[benny]

Thomas,

Looking good indeed!

10mm glass will be very heavy. For your tank dimension, 8 mm should be more than sufficient for a braceless tank. Did you check with the tank makers?

Cheers,

[ankank]

For your tank dimension, 8 mm should be more than sufficient

I'll do you one better: Tanks in this dimension are usually made of 5 or 6 mm float glass -- at least for the side walls, the bottom would be a little thicker, I guess.

Calculating the weight of glass is simple: Glass weighs around 3 tons for a cubic meter. Which means 3 kg per square meter per mm thickness.

60x40x45
= 0,24 (for the bottom) + 2*0,18 (for the sides) + 2*0,27 (for front and back)
= 1,14 m² * 10 mm * 3 kg
= 34,2 kg.

So all in all, you'd end up with a weight of 35 kg for the tank.


Edit: 100th post! Yay!

[tcampbell]

My tank maker said that they will do it in 8mm if they use glass rods at the corners for support. If not then they will need to do it in 10mm glass. Does that make sense?
5mm glass is just to weak to hold a braceless tank. With 5mm there would be little place for the silicon to hold it.

[David Moses Heng]

nice stand but please do test it before putting on the tank. I'm building one also for my 2 ft but i'm using 18mm thick marine ply wood for the frame.

Cheers!!

[ankank]

My tank maker said that they will do it in 8mm if they use glass rods at the corners for support. If not then they will need to do it in 10mm glass. Does that make sense?

Well, I wonder how they manage to make 100x50x50 tanks in 8mm over here with neither glass rods nor braces. But, heck, I guess your tank maker just plays it really safe. Who am I to argue with that, it's not like I have any technical experience in this regard.

With 5mm there would be little place for the silicon to hold it.

Actually it has not soo much to do with the silicon. I just asked a LFS owner a few hours ago, also to back me up or to correct me. He said that it's actually the warping due to the water pressure that requires the respective thickness. Accordingly, the thickness increases with the tank's width and height. Up to 40 cm height can be done with 6mm (I was wrong there), 8mm for up to 50 cm, 10mm for up to 60 cm ... and so on. It also increases with increasing width, but 60cm isn't that much for a tank.

[vratenza]

IMHO, it's always better with a little extra headroom. It's good to calculate the amount of water, it's constant pressure acting on the side walls.

But what about non- constants such as variation in temperature ie. colder temperature result in denser water....structural properties of the glass to various environmental temperature.... also, how about the occasional accidental knocks on the glass by visitors or even while doing household chores. Who dare to say that when they do water change or maintenance of their tank, they do not lean against the top of the tank for that little bit of support? how about moving DW or stones around while scaping?

so all these are the little things that can mean a difference between a safe and nag-free hobby from a very wet and miserable hobby....

FYI, my new 2x1x1ft braceless tank is using 12mm float glass.......haha prob overkill..... but to me it is security and at the same time i think it looks more classy and higher grade with thicker glass

[tcampbell]

wow that is thick glass!

I would like to have it in 8mm as the glass is less green colored and the weight would be less. But since it is a ADA style stand and the width and lenght of the stand is the exact width and lenght of the tank, it might be better to be be 10mm, that way there is 10mm all around holding it. Just incase earthquakes in Taiwan the higher weight might hold it in place better.

Not sure about why the 10mm other then they saying that they will guarenttee it will not leak if 10mm but if I want 8mm no braces and no rods they will not guarentee it from leaks and the responsibility is all on me if something goes wrong.

I ahve tested it with my weight and wife on it, what do you do to test yours? pile 300 pounds of bricks on it?

[valice]

But do note that thicker glass means higher contortion when you look at your tank from an angle. For 12mm, even a 10deg offset will have a bad bad contortion.

BTW, 5-plan or GEX tanks are using like 5mm for their 2ft tanks. So 8mm is sufficient. 12mm is too much!!!

[vratenza]

I believe you are talking about 2 separate issues here:
1) cabinet structural strength to hold up the weight of the tank and contents
2) minimal thickness of the glass to withstand the water pressure

For question 1, the answer is pretty simple since one of the bros have already made some calculations on the tank weight for you and you made the estimate on the content weight. Body weight/weight plates testing will do fine. Some structural issues for your consideration: I noticed your tank will just sit ontop of the cabinet ie. not sitting in a recess. For country like Taiwan exposed to earthquakes, may need to consider the tank sliding off in even a minor tremor. Second, in relative to your tank weight, your cabinet seem almost light weight. Thus you may need to think about bringing down the high centre of gravity. Third, I'm no carpenter but I kind of feel that the joints may need a little reinsforcement eg. internal L-braces. But I think you are pretty good with your hands and thus should not be an issue.

For question 2, "greeness" of the thicker glass is not obvious (at least to me) whe filled with water and with adequate and proper lighting. Also, I will tend to take the advice from the tank-maker with regards to the choice of glass in relation to the tank size and structural construction.
When I got my 6x2x2 feet tank, I was quite sure I wanted to get a 12 mm thick glass without bracing...... was told by the tank-maker that it can be done but will be risky in terms of low treshold for any other forms of un expected pressure. So in the end, I had euro bracing top and bottom with a centre brace piece... now I sleep with a peace of mind every night or when i go on overseas trip knowing that my tank will hold up.

[vratenza]

But do note that thicker glass means higher contortion when you look at your tank from an angle. For 12mm, even a 10deg offset will have a bad bad contortion.

BTW, 5-plan or GEX tanks are using like 5mm for their 2ft tanks. So 8mm is sufficient. 12mm is too much!!!

haha, 12 mm is just me! I am not advocating to go for 12mm, just letting him know the extremes! Anyway, for me, the contortion is minimal unless you put your nose up to the glasss surface. By virtue of light refraction principles, the further you are from the tank, the less distortion. Obviously I am not saying you must stand 5m away to enjoy your tank, which defeats the purpose of a relatively small sized tank but from my experience, my 2x1x1 is just next to me on the other arm of the L shape study cabinet. Thus that viewing distence is about 1/2 an arm's length away with no distortion percievable.

[tcampbell]

vratenza - your are right. Two different issues entirely. I am not really worried about the stand, as I will explain below, but rather worried about the tank itself before it is built. 8mm glass usually has less distortion and not as green of a color, but one shop says it is ok, the other shop says it isn't. One says it will need glass rods to support the corners the other says it won't. One says that it will probably leak in a few years if I use 8mm glass, and the other say 10mm glass will make the tank too heavy and is pointless and 8mm is structurally strong enough to support all the outward force put on it by the water. As the weight of the tank is being supported by the stand and not by the tank itself (Unless it is only being braced at the corners and not on a flat surface - someting not being done!)


These are pictures of the back support which are under the top inside back of the stand.

There is a inner support which goes from top to bottom of the stand to further brace the weight from the top (middle board from above picture)

The front of the stand is supported by two layers of 18mm MDF, so 1 1/2 inches wide screwed together joining the sides, top, and front with 2 inch screws

The back braces, screwed to the sides will hold the sides together so now worries about the stand bending to one side or the other. And since the back braces are at the top and the bottom, each more than 1/3 of the total height of the stand it is well braced. (The opening is to allow heat to escape from the stand, make it a little lighter and give a place to grab when moving the stand) Plus I can use it to route the cords, filter pipes and CO2 if I don't wnat to drill holes in the sides.


Do you really think this is not enough?

I have looked at the stands in the shops, and they have no inside back braces, the back is usually just 3 mm thick cheap plywood where mine is a solid back. They usually have an inner back support 1" by the lenght of the inside of the stand to support the whole weight. There is no braces at the bottom of the stand and the wood they use is a lot thinner.

The only place I think might ever have a problem would be the bottom of the stand where the sides join to it, but that would only be a problem if someone was standing on the inside of the stand and trying to lift up the top of the stand while still standing on it. (Unrealistic but it might happen) I will put two 2" by 2" boards to support that joint on each side.

[vratenza]

from your pictures, I think it may be just enough although If it is me, I may have some reservations.

let me give you a sample of my 6x2x2 tank cabinet which make use of a very strong marine grade wooden frame doing all the support. I have removable lourved/plywood panels all round which does nothing for the structural rigidity

the black beams are the supporting structures. I can take out all the panels without losing any structural rigidity.
I guess that may be my idea of stable support for a relatively heavy and fragile tank.