How does GeX substrate compare against ADA Aquasoil?

[Jervis]

Just to share my personal experience with full ADA substrate setup (Amazonia II).

On the day of setup.

2.55pm - Dry rockscaping


3.45pm - Filling up water


5.30pm - Tank filled


6.30pm (the next day) - After planting


Cloudiness?

Just to add... I was told that Amazonia II is an improved version... perhaps they have resolved the "cloudiness" issue. So far I am happy with ADA

[illumnae]

I think people have come and gone on this thread saying that it is possible for ADA tanks to be filled without cloudiness. that is not disputed. however, can ADA tanks be stirred up and uncloud within 30minutes? while some people may say "why would i do that?" but the fact is that if this happens, GEX is the superior product because of its quick clarity. I believe that this does happen for many people (especially those new to the hobby and don't know to fill their tanks the way you do).

My personal experience is stressed fish thrashing about the bottom of the tank and stirring up ALL the substrate (3 inches thick) for 1/4 of the tank. the cloudiness raised was very contained to the area 1/2 a foot above the stirred up area and it settled/disappeared in less than 30 minutes. I've also done an entire rescape with Gex (removing all hardscape buried in the soil as well as uprooting all the plants) and left the fish inside (including my precious zebra otos) and i had less than 15 minutes of cloudiness and not a single fish death. that is, i believe, what is superior about Gex

[aquanatix]

Anyway...Jervis point on the NEW ADA Amazonia II being improved sounds interesting enough. So far the cloudiness issue seems to be one of the main concerns with the disputing brands..perhaps more comments or a test between the two brands would help clear up claims once and for all? Make no mistake, i'm into my 3rd tank with GEX and so far no complains regarding cloudiness issues! I frequently mess with my tanks and often stir up gravel BIG TIME especially when i try catching faster livestock like plecos and corydoras. I never really have to wait too long before tank clears up,which is something i really like when i wanna see adjustments almost immediately? BUT...as a fish freak who is planning even more planted tanks in the near future(hopefully?),i'd really love to see a comparison between the various brands available out there! I'm sure it'd be a very interesting experiment and eye opener to all of us here especially people whom are very new to the hobby and are here to learn more before making investments. I believe the substrate is the make or die factor when it comes to a planted setup and this information would go a long way for everyone?
ADA vs Gex vs Magic soil vs Dennerle etc... anyone?
Anyway beetlejuice,if you're interested i usually get my Gex supply from the Clementi LFS. Both shops there offer pretty reasonable prices? Never did a price comparison though,but Clementi has always been my magic place when it comes to aquarium "barang barang"! I'm very sure many of us here feel the same as well!

[Merviso]

hahaha... here it goes again...

I have a tank with GEX, and I have a tank with ADA, I would say they have very different characteristics, and will be suitable for different people with different fauna and flora requirements, and of cos different styles of keeping fishes.

Anyway, the competition between ADA & GEX is good for us all... It will help make our plants grow better...

[EvolutionZ]

IMO, i would say ADA is better in sense of ferts in the soil as i get much better plant growth and heathier plant using ADA compared to GeX.
But, if you were talking about cloudiness.. GeX certainly is better, i recently rescape my 2ft tank with ADA, tank was cloudy for 2 days, and i recently rescaped my 1ft cube with GeX, well, after removing lots of plants and rocks, cloudiness was cleared within 1hour..

As for the grain size, i would vote for GeX red packing, i find that ADA's grain size is abit too big to hold plants nicely, the best would be GeX dark geen packing, but i find it being too powdery and i don't really like the look of the "dirty" looking grain size.
i would say GeX red packing would be perfect for me.

i would use ADA as the bottom substrate(for good plant growth) and GeX on top layer(for preventing major cloudiness), Purely GeX soil with root tablets, or ADA soil with perhaps things like active carbon or products that can clear cloudy water fast.

End of the day, i guess either ADA or GeX will have its pros and cons..

my 0.2cents worth.

[cheetf]

IMO, i would say ADA is better in sense of ferts in the soil as i get much better plant growth and heathier plant using ADA compared to GeX.

From my own experience I tend to agree with the statement above. However I have found the ADA II to be much improved in terms of cloudiness and to be not too far from GEX.

Again these are my observations from using the products.

[EvolutionZ]

i think i ever heard before that ADA II have reduced ferts in them to improve the cloudiness caused.. not sure if its true though..

[torque6]

The thing is ada has known issues with cloudy water with the amazon series 1, but 2 is an improvement on this. In recent months with both ricky using his gex to grow glosso with numerous others and jervis in his ada cubes, both setups have done perfectly well in sustaining good growth.

I guess the real difference between these 2 are just "price" and the aquarist preferences on which soil he is happy working with.

I have only worked with gex soil and it does clears up in less than 2hours in all my initial setup.

[gemo82]

Do the nutirents run out in substrates like Gex or ADA? What happens to the substrates when they "expire"? Do we need to use a gravel cleaner to clean the substrates in a planted tank?

Can anyone provide any link to any step by step setting up of the substrates for noobs like me? Like can we use substrate with nutirents like Gex and top up with a thin layer of lapis sand to prevent cloudiness and yet provide nutrients to plant roots?

[illumnae]

yup gemo82, the nutrients do run out eventually in both Gex or ADA. usually when that happens, root inserts are put into the substrate to provide nutrients. Usually it's 1-3 years before the nutrients run out though.

please don't use a gravel cleaner with soil! only use it if you're using sand/gravel with no form of bast fertilizer. if you are, then you should just use a siphon to suck out any debris from the surface of the substrate instead.

as for setting up the substrate, the simplest way will just be to pour the Gex in and you're ready to plant. there's no need to top up with lapis as you won't have cloudiness issues with Gex alternatively, if you want to use lapis sand, you can get base ferts (JBL is a popular brand) to put under the lapis

[genes]

Hi gemo82

Another point to take note of. ADA provides alternative to prolong the nutrient life of the soil by their Power Sand Special product which is laid at the bottom just like we do with base ferts. Alternatively, you could just use any other base ferts along with ADA or GEX to prolong their nutrient life.

[illumnae]

From my understanding, Power Sand Special doesn't work in the same way as base ferts which prolong nutrient life. rather, its purpose is to kickstart the under-substrate bacterial system which provides various benefits. this purpose can be easily and cheaply emulated using other materials

[lorba]

First of all, I am not really a ADA Supporter and I think I used much more lapis sand then anything else to date.

It could be Lapis Sand, Dennerle Sand, ADA, GEX or whatever substrate and sand. Whichever meets the buyer requirement, affordability, appeal, is a good product, to the buyer. If we are talking about doing things cheaply, there are even cheaper products than GEX, which some of us will agree that is slightly cheaper than ADA if you know where to get it. With proper care in good hands, I think one can achieve very good result using just lava rock chips/pumice at the bottom and lapis sand on top. It dont have to be ADA nor GEX.

When we set up our tanks, apart from buying acoording to depth-of-pocket, preferrence of brands, we should also have a good understanding of what we expect to achieve and the ability of the material used to achieve it.

GEX is a line of product targeted mainly at small/novelty aquarium with its food, substrate, pebbles, tanks and accessories. With the aquarium soil market (instead of sand) picking up these years, they learnt the mistakes made by others and join them selling soil. However, until today, they are still at the entry level in terms of providing a maintenance system for professional planted hobby. (This does not mean GEX soil is not good). That tells us where their direction and emphasis are.

On the other hand, ADA started out with planted hobby in mind and they had make their effort in researches to innovate as well as refine current practises. Everything they sell are meant for setting up and up-keeping a planted tank, from tools, hardware, fertilizers, substrate to food. They made it easy for users in the form of eg. Step 1/2/3 of liquid fert so that beginners will not screw it up and busy lao jiaos can save time doing better things. Studies even allow them to pack different size of power sand for different tank sizes (due to water pressure at different depth).

On whether ADA or GEX soil has more nutrients, I would say that both do not have enough to last over 3 months. You will still need whatever that is required (be it liquid or base ferts) to upkeep the plants lushly. No base fertilizers can last more then 1 yrs without losing its effectiveness. It could be even shorter when you have a lot of hungry and big eater plants.

Cloudiness. This is only an issue when you like to change plants every eg. 2-3 months. You pull things up, damage or crumbles the granule. With such short periods, I dont think plants really grow fully before they are torn down.

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So, what to use?

Really, it depends on how much you are willing to spend and which concept you are more comfortable with.

[aquanatix]

I'm guessing at this point,everything here would seem very funny to a non aquarist. Imagine how so many people arguing about "soil" would look?

Somehow more crucial points seem to be unearthed with each reply that would only help people like myself think better. The more i read the more i learn. I'm still up for slightly more experimental/technical comparisons or tests though as i really believe that it would put a final stop to incessant comparisons between these major 2 brands in question.

As i've said,i'm one of those that never got around using the ADA line of products. I initially went all out just to buy them after reading up more about it here. Back then ADA was THE standard when it came to planting. I'll be honest again,i of course immediately thought that i could automatically achieve what Amano has already accomplished because why?He's the "godfather" of the aquascaping hobby and nobody would refute that claim after seeing his tanks on various publications. I'm impressionable and eager,and i immediately thought... Hey,if Amano did it so well...he must've really known what he was talking about.When he comes out with products like ADA substrate,this must be IT! Somewhere along the train of thought,i went to hunt for ADA substrate. Unfortunately due to the fact that the planted hobby was beginning to grow popular,ADA substrates were sold out at C328 where i usually purchase my supplies. Gex was the brand the auntie recommended me with her saying(and i do quote exactly)try this brand,newly arrived...not bad and slightly cheaper then the ADA you were asking for. I was so eager to setup my tank i bought it there and then. It looked alike to the ADA and hey,it was also Japanese? Not sure if it was my subconscious telling me Japanese=Good or simply because the packaging looked professional...i bought it anyway and thus began my journey with GEX.

It was only after going deeper into the hobby that i started finding out more on different substrates. I never really did have the need for change as GEX was ok for my usage. But for someone who's say keeping Apistos? The difference in substrate would be important as i understand ADA gives a lower PH which in turn becomes crucial when it comes to Apistos. With this in mind,one point really stood out...Just buy what you need?Budget and various factors do play such an important part with purchases but research is still essential to every hobbyist. This would go on forever but for the better i guess. I'm still gonna be lurking around here just to read up more because extra knowledge never hurts?

[gemo82]

The purpose of this thread is therefore beneficial in my opinion if it provides information for the readers to compare the 2 products in whatever is important to individual users. At the end of the day, what matters is not which brand is superior, but how and why are they better at certain parameters. This gives readers the information that is really valuable as to HOW THINGS WORK, not just which brand is good and use blindly, following the opinions of others which defeats the purpose of LEARNING about this hobby here at this forum.

All in all, I believe experiences from users regarding which product achieves what results in their setups are important for a reader who is deciding to choose which product to use. However, since experiences from different users vary, and other parameters have to be observed for the results, I believe what is more important is information about how each product achieves its stated performance, so that readers understand more about this hobby and have the knowledge to choose or modify the usage of products to suit their own needs.

For those who just want to achieve fantastic results without understanding, they might as well buy a tank set up for them by professionals and hire them to maintain the tank as well.

Please continue to provide information and personal experiences of the 2 products stated in this thread.

Regards

[benny]

There were a lot of counter productive discussions in this thread previously and I've tidied it up. The essence of the discussion and all the key points remained after the distillation. The original thread is archived for future reference if necessary. Further attempts to divide the community or to create a politically charged environment will not be tolerated.

This forum is created so that hobbyists can share tips and ideas on how to better their skill of keeping planted tank and fishes, not to promote nor put down any commercial brands. Members are encouraged to share their opinion and experience, be it positive or negative, but refrain from mindless "brand supporting" and "brand bashing". More explicitly, discuss, rejoin, but no "evangelising" and no "persecuting".

In addition, any further insinuating remarks with regards to my team and their moderating standards WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. It will be a direct ban from Aquatic Quotient.

I believe we all have the ability to make choices and can have varied results. Let's all agree to accept differing experiences/opinions and enjoy the hobby together.

Cheers,

[williamng]

Generally I find it very difficult to compare. Unless someone setup 2 tanks with different substrate yet similiar conditions and plant the same type of plants. Then record down all the observations and parameters just like we conduct experiment. With concrete data, we can then determine the better brand.

Personally, I prefer ADA based on personal experience. When I plant, I can feel the soil gripping my plants. I dont have the same feel for GEX. Having said that, that is based on feel...

[dnsfpl]

understand than gex soil will expire in app 2 years
how about those open and unused potion? will they expire too?
i left 1/2 a pack of gex light green substrate


btw just to share my noob experience, after rescaping my plants
i immediately put in my neons when the water is cloudy
amazing they survive but their "top" are fill with black particles
after weeks, the particles are finally gone

[benny]

Generally I find it very difficult to compare. Unless someone setup 2 tanks with different substrate yet similiar conditions and plant the same type of plants. Then record down all the observations and parameters just like we conduct experiment. With concrete data, we can then determine the better brand.

Very good point.

Otherwise, there are too many variable factors not mentioned and the small sample size under differing conditions discredit puts most of the comments in the previous posts.

Perhaps someone can spare 2 similar tanks and do an experiment!!!

Cheers,

[williamng]

Sometimes, it is rather difficult in terms of equipment and space. If I have the equipment, I dont mind.