weak fish we have

[lsz]

the problem had prevailed for many years, and is getting worse

many common cichlid species we find in the local market had been heavily inbred. It is getting worse, fish are getting weak.
this applies to both new world and old world cichlids.

More and more ppl get fish that dont grow well, that die very easily, despite the best conditions. Many are experienced aquarists.

Only relatively new species and wild caught fish are free from this problem..

the Luohan displays so much vigour...
parent stocks are originally good , and the crossbreeding among different species ensure a very strong gene pool. No wonder Luohans look so much happier in tanks than other fish. They are abt the only fish left that are growing like central americans should....

THis is something i miss badly from today's fish.

[lsz]

the problem had prevailed for many years, and is getting worse

many common cichlid species we find in the local market had been heavily inbred. It is getting worse, fish are getting weak.
this applies to both new world and old world cichlids.

More and more ppl get fish that dont grow well, that die very easily, despite the best conditions. Many are experienced aquarists.

Only relatively new species and wild caught fish are free from this problem..

the Luohan displays so much vigour...
parent stocks are originally good , and the crossbreeding among different species ensure a very strong gene pool. No wonder Luohans look so much happier in tanks than other fish. They are abt the only fish left that are growing like central americans should....

THis is something i miss badly from today's fish.

[lsz]

the problem had prevailed for many years, and is getting worse

many common cichlid species we find in the local market had been heavily inbred. It is getting worse, fish are getting weak.
this applies to both new world and old world cichlids.

More and more ppl get fish that dont grow well, that die very easily, despite the best conditions. Many are experienced aquarists.

Only relatively new species and wild caught fish are free from this problem..

the Luohan displays so much vigour...
parent stocks are originally good , and the crossbreeding among different species ensure a very strong gene pool. No wonder Luohans look so much happier in tanks than other fish. They are abt the only fish left that are growing like central americans should....

THis is something i miss badly from today's fish.

[lsz]

the problem had prevailed for many years, and is getting worse

many common cichlid species we find in the local market had been heavily inbred. It is getting worse, fish are getting weak.
this applies to both new world and old world cichlids.

More and more ppl get fish that dont grow well, that die very easily, despite the best conditions. Many are experienced aquarists.

Only relatively new species and wild caught fish are free from this problem..

the Luohan displays so much vigour...
parent stocks are originally good , and the crossbreeding among different species ensure a very strong gene pool. No wonder Luohans look so much happier in tanks than other fish. They are abt the only fish left that are growing like central americans should....

THis is something i miss badly from today's fish.

[eZion]

So is there anytihng that we can do about it? Like ordering some stocks from abroad and breed them?

[elmike]

Ya, it amazes me to see how people, including lfs keep LHs in relatively small tanks and they seem to do Ok. I read that LHs are hardier that arowanas? Aren's they also in-bred like arowanas and any other fish species. Maybe they are already endowed with hardy genes to begin with?

[lsz]

nope mike

By inbreeding we mean that fish from the same batch are bred with one another, and the children are bred with one another, and the grandchildren are bred with one another.
Under reasonable conditions, a large portion of a spawn survives. This will imply that, not only the stronger ones, but the weaker ones will stay and pass on their genes to the next generation.

Now this doesnt happen in nature, where only the strongest survive. And only the best genes get passed on.

THe issue abt Luohans, well they are still very new, and to add to that, subsequent batches may not stay and breed with one another, but rather, some were selected to breed with other species to attain certain desirable traits.

Now those selected ones are often those with the best size and colour (and of coz the Kok). These are the traits that appear on the strongest fish. So in a way, there is much more selection when breeding Luohans...

But if certain popular strains had somehow stabilised after some years, inbreeding will occur too

[lsz]

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On 9/16/2002 11:48:38 AM

So is there anytihng that we can do about it? Like ordering some stocks from abroad and breed them?
----------------

Isaac, this is a problem that prevails not only in singapore.Even if we import fish, if they are farm bred, they are just like wat we have here.

Unless they come from breeders that are keen to preserve the genetic integrity of the species, and will not resort to repeated inbreeding for profit..

another means is of coz wild caught fish.
But those species that can be bred commercially have low value being wild caught. they appeal to a niche group, and economically not justifiable for the locals who catch them.

and of coz the best means is to collect the fish ourselve.......... [:0]
it will take a lot

normally people are very content with LFS fish, like wat all of us have. And they are still great fish to keep. Many of them are inbred but this doesnt pose any big problem.

My sentiment came from the observation that cichlids nowadays, though still great fish, are showing signs of weakness. Literal. THere just seems to be something lacking in them..perhaps it is part psychological too.

the fact that many popular cichlids breed easily doenst help the situation!

[elmike]

lsz

I'm assuming that most of the fish that we see in lfs are inbreds fr the local fish farms. Some lfs have, hwr, claimed that some of their batches were imported fr overseas but I suppose we would have to take their word for it.

Would u have a list of the species that are known to be so difficult to breed in captivity that they are likely to be wild-caughts when we see them in the lfs?? One which comes easily to mind is the clown loach, which I presume are all caught fr rivers in Indonesia. And yes, I must add that they are extremely hardy! I got 2 of them July '01 and they are still with me today, growing healthily w no signs of any disease whatsoever.

quote]
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On 9/16/2002 11:07:36 AM

So is there anytihng that we can do about it? Like ordering some stocks from abroad and breed them?

----------------
[/quote]

If given a choice, I will choose to buy wild-caught fish. I wonder if there is any lfs around that would specially order wild-caughts at our request? How much more expensive are wild-caughts than farm-breds?

mike

[lsz]

mike, another factor is actually inter-species.

it all depends on how sensitive a particular species is...so the issue is not just whether a fish is from a natural gene pool or heavily inbred.

captive bred oscars are still hardy fish..although farm bred for many generations.
they can still be tougher that some species that come from more natural sources...because genetically they are still very tough fish to begin with.

so the water requirement range of the fish is also a factor that will determine if they will do well in home tanks..
a sensitive fish doesnt imply that it is weak...it is jsut that it has a narrower margin for deviation of water chemistry.

so a lot of times it is fish - specific, but yes, many of our fish are inbred badly.
Some examples i can give are oscars, green terrors , salvinis, keyholes and a number of cichlids. so far this is the group i deem to have the greatest observable differences. (of coz i tend to spend a lot more time on them than other families... )