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Thread: PO4 at 40ppm!!

  1. #1
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    PO4 at 40ppm!!

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    Yesterday I tested my water and I found PO4 was at ridiculus level.

    PO4 40ppm!!
    NO3 20ppm
    Fe 0.5ppm

    The last test I done was about 3~4 weeks ago.
    PO4 0.5ppm
    NO3 10ppm
    Fe 0.25ppm

    I tested the test kit by getting reading from my tap water and some distill water. They turn out ok, so the test kit should be reliable.

    I remembered adding some Horti plant tabs into the substrate about 2 weeks ago. I did some replanting last week (itchy fingers as usual). I checked the composition of the tabs and found it contains "soluble phosphate" while only part of the N is in the soluble form. I think that's why the PO4 shot up while the NO3 is still in the reasonable range.

    Many would expect an outbreak of some algae like BBA. But, so far, there is no algae outbreak. In fact the plants are starting to have tremedous growth especially the Hydrocotyle while there is no sign speeding up of algae growth. And my Echinodorus ozelot is sending out a flower stalk to the surface.

    According to the posts in the APD about algae vs plants, there should be little risk of algae outbreak if the plants are kept in healthy condition. I am keeping my tank in this way to see how things go. I would like to see if the P limitation theory can be thrown right out of window.

    But you guys have any knowledge of side effects of excess PO4 on plants or fishes other than algae?

    BC

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    PO4 at 40ppm!!

    Yesterday I tested my water and I found PO4 was at ridiculus level.

    PO4 40ppm!!
    NO3 20ppm
    Fe 0.5ppm

    The last test I done was about 3~4 weeks ago.
    PO4 0.5ppm
    NO3 10ppm
    Fe 0.25ppm

    I tested the test kit by getting reading from my tap water and some distill water. They turn out ok, so the test kit should be reliable.

    I remembered adding some Horti plant tabs into the substrate about 2 weeks ago. I did some replanting last week (itchy fingers as usual). I checked the composition of the tabs and found it contains "soluble phosphate" while only part of the N is in the soluble form. I think that's why the PO4 shot up while the NO3 is still in the reasonable range.

    Many would expect an outbreak of some algae like BBA. But, so far, there is no algae outbreak. In fact the plants are starting to have tremedous growth especially the Hydrocotyle while there is no sign speeding up of algae growth. And my Echinodorus ozelot is sending out a flower stalk to the surface.

    According to the posts in the APD about algae vs plants, there should be little risk of algae outbreak if the plants are kept in healthy condition. I am keeping my tank in this way to see how things go. I would like to see if the P limitation theory can be thrown right out of window.

    But you guys have any knowledge of side effects of excess PO4 on plants or fishes other than algae?

    BC

  3. #3
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    PO4 at 40ppm!!

    Yesterday I tested my water and I found PO4 was at ridiculus level.

    PO4 40ppm!!
    NO3 20ppm
    Fe 0.5ppm

    The last test I done was about 3~4 weeks ago.
    PO4 0.5ppm
    NO3 10ppm
    Fe 0.25ppm

    I tested the test kit by getting reading from my tap water and some distill water. They turn out ok, so the test kit should be reliable.

    I remembered adding some Horti plant tabs into the substrate about 2 weeks ago. I did some replanting last week (itchy fingers as usual). I checked the composition of the tabs and found it contains "soluble phosphate" while only part of the N is in the soluble form. I think that's why the PO4 shot up while the NO3 is still in the reasonable range.

    Many would expect an outbreak of some algae like BBA. But, so far, there is no algae outbreak. In fact the plants are starting to have tremedous growth especially the Hydrocotyle while there is no sign speeding up of algae growth. And my Echinodorus ozelot is sending out a flower stalk to the surface.

    According to the posts in the APD about algae vs plants, there should be little risk of algae outbreak if the plants are kept in healthy condition. I am keeping my tank in this way to see how things go. I would like to see if the P limitation theory can be thrown right out of window.

    But you guys have any knowledge of side effects of excess PO4 on plants or fishes other than algae?

    BC

  4. #4
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    PO4 at 40ppm!!

    Yesterday I tested my water and I found PO4 was at ridiculus level.

    PO4 40ppm!!
    NO3 20ppm
    Fe 0.5ppm

    The last test I done was about 3~4 weeks ago.
    PO4 0.5ppm
    NO3 10ppm
    Fe 0.25ppm

    I tested the test kit by getting reading from my tap water and some distill water. They turn out ok, so the test kit should be reliable.

    I remembered adding some Horti plant tabs into the substrate about 2 weeks ago. I did some replanting last week (itchy fingers as usual). I checked the composition of the tabs and found it contains "soluble phosphate" while only part of the N is in the soluble form. I think that's why the PO4 shot up while the NO3 is still in the reasonable range.

    Many would expect an outbreak of some algae like BBA. But, so far, there is no algae outbreak. In fact the plants are starting to have tremedous growth especially the Hydrocotyle while there is no sign speeding up of algae growth. And my Echinodorus ozelot is sending out a flower stalk to the surface.

    According to the posts in the APD about algae vs plants, there should be little risk of algae outbreak if the plants are kept in healthy condition. I am keeping my tank in this way to see how things go. I would like to see if the P limitation theory can be thrown right out of window.

    But you guys have any knowledge of side effects of excess PO4 on plants or fishes other than algae?

    BC

  5. #5
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    Last time I tried raising my PO4 from 0.25ppm to 1.0ppm using KH2PO4, there was an outbreak of BBA. I stopped the dosing but the BBA still there.
    Wish you all the luck.
    koah fong
    Juggler's tanks

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    bclee,

    I used Jobe for Aquatic Plants a few months ago. The N-P-K was 8-24-8, if i'm not wrong... PO4 went pass the 20ppm limit of my test kit, but tank was N-Limited. Then I went and added KNO3 to raise NO3 to 5ppm... BANG, hair algae!!!

    I think it's tank to tank. Light, CO2, Fe, trace elements, water quality... all play a part. I'd still try and bring the PO4 down if I were you.

    BTW, plants prefer getting P thru the roots.
    Vincent - AQ is for everyone, but not for 'u' and 'mi'.
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    Prevously, when I started using Super Root Monster, I had an outbreak of BBA when the PO4 level shot up. The APD guys adviced me to up CO2 and it worked. BBA was gone. My PO4 level stayed >2ppm for quite some time without any further outbreak.

    There is this guru in the APD, Tom Barr, whom I believed some of you know, advocate that it is not the competition or nutrient limitation that keep the algae down. He always recommended high CO2 with proper dosing of all nutrients including NO3 and PO4.

    I then started to buy into that idea. And I became a CO2 maniac. So far it worked for me.

    This time I will keep the PO4 and see the outcome. So far 1 week already and no algae outbreak. (You guys must think I am crazy.[] )

    BC

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    Hmmmm.... nah, I'm glad for ppl who are willing to experiment. Maybe I'll become CO2 maniac too.... need to bring my water pH down anyway.
    Vincent - AQ is for everyone, but not for 'u' and 'mi'.
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    Vinz, I bought my jobe plant sticks and the N-P-K is 13-4-5.
    I don't know if it is applicable to you right now but just thought you may want to try that if you are worried about the N and P values.

    bc, there is this site aquaden http://aquaden.com/phpBB2/index.php
    there is this guru by the name of 2many who may help you with your problem. ( But don't mention Tom Barr's name because both of them have different school of thought )

    Hope this infor helps.

  10. #10
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    Wolf, thanks... I kinda bought my Jobes before I found out there were more then one type. I'm kinda stuck with mind right now cos I bought 3 boxes!! Oh well, use slowly, or give my sis who is into pond and aquatic plants now cos her children are studying them in school.

    Thanks for the link.
    Vincent - AQ is for everyone, but not for 'u' and 'mi'.
    Why use punctuation? See what a difference it makes:
    A woman, without her man, is nothing.
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  11. #11
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    yep
    tom barr is one of those who insist that it's the proper mix of nutrients
    i'm one of those who think that every tank needs tweaking instead of having a magic formula
    so basically, congrats, bc ^ __ ^

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    Update:

    Changed water on Mon and tested again yesterday. Still no change.

    PO4 40ppm
    NO3 20ppm
    Fe 0.5ppm

    I decided to test other parameters also.

    GH 8
    KH 4
    pH 6.0 !![:0]

    Checked the charts. The CO2 is something like 127ppm.[:0]

    Nah...I don't trust the KH readings... maybe buffered by the PO4 (???)

    Anyway, the fish ain't complaining. Lastly, no algae yet.

    But I become more jumpy... because I have this feeling that if I screw up any of the other nutrients I will in for big trouble.

    BC

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    BC, can I check if you are still maintaining your tank at aboout 120ppm CO2 with no problems?

    I have a tank with the same GH, KH, pH measurement as you. the bba situation is a lot more controlled than my other tank (where the CO2 is only 30 ppm). thinking of upping the CO2 for my other tank.

    btw, can I also check with anyone - NO3 at 5 to 10ppm:
    is this the amount to dose (assuming No3 measured alomost zero), or is this the amount to maintain (i.e. may have to dose more than 10 ppm assuming high consumption)?

    Thx!!

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    ----------------
    On 6/2/2003 2:37:54 PM

    BC, can I check if you are still maintaining your tank at aboout 120ppm CO2 with no problems?

    I have a tank with the same GH, KH, pH measurement as you. the bba situation is a lot more controlled than my other tank (where the CO2 is only 30 ppm). thinking of upping the CO2 for my other tank.

    btw, can I also check with anyone - NO3 at 5 to 10ppm:
    is this the amount to dose (assuming No3 measured alomost zero), or is this the amount to maintain (i.e. may have to dose more than 10 ppm assuming high consumption)?

    Thx!!
    ----------------
    It is not really 120ppm of CO2. It is just the inaccuracy of the test kits or other factors like pH buffers other than CO3. Just tweak it little by little and observer the plants and fishes.

    For NO3, maintain at 5-10ppm level. Yes, you may have to add more than 10ppm depending on your tank bioload and plant consumption.

    BC

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    I am currently maintaining PO4 at 2ppm too and no significant outbreak of algae. My experience is when NO3 drops too low, BBA appears.

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    Thx BC and geoffrey.

    Yup, shortly after posting my query, i read about KH/pH/CO2 ratio being skewed if there is PO4 buffer. My PO4 appears quite high.

    In any case, my fishes are fine. So i guess the reading must be off.

    Thx!!

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