Heating cables for the substrate

[anakin]

Hiyah everyone! Have this question - Are heating cables really necessary? I've got a few replies earlier saying that it's not required. But the more I think about it, the more the thought nags at me when I saw the anaerobic substrate at Teo's yesterday.

Guys and gals, and esp for Vinz (because you know where the following info is coming from[] ) Nutrients (esp Fe needs to be kept in the bivalent form (Fe2) which plants' roots readily absorb. While the presence of too much O2 will turn it into the trivalent form Fe3. Now, having a thick substrate with the base fert at the bottom or fert with chelates in them ensures that it stays in the bivalant form.

But here comes the nagging part - most of us have quite thick fert - about 2 or more inches of fert. roots cannot survive too well in anaerobic conditions, right? Therefore they wouldn't extend too deep into the substrate.

So, would it be safe to say that we might be wasting our thick base fert then, because the base fert at the bottom of the tank will not be circulated in the substrate by the heating cables? Because the roots, esp for those short rooted plants, will not reach THAT deep and there's no way the bottom fert's gonna reach the roots too? I've read a few books and even Dennerle is recommednding it. Apart from the fact that these are written for tenperate c'tries, they actually have some sense where the circulation part is concerned.

Comments?

[anakin]

Hiyah everyone! Have this question - Are heating cables really necessary? I've got a few replies earlier saying that it's not required. But the more I think about it, the more the thought nags at me when I saw the anaerobic substrate at Teo's yesterday.

Guys and gals, and esp for Vinz (because you know where the following info is coming from[] ) Nutrients (esp Fe needs to be kept in the bivalent form (Fe2) which plants' roots readily absorb. While the presence of too much O2 will turn it into the trivalent form Fe3. Now, having a thick substrate with the base fert at the bottom or fert with chelates in them ensures that it stays in the bivalant form.

But here comes the nagging part - most of us have quite thick fert - about 2 or more inches of fert. roots cannot survive too well in anaerobic conditions, right? Therefore they wouldn't extend too deep into the substrate.

So, would it be safe to say that we might be wasting our thick base fert then, because the base fert at the bottom of the tank will not be circulated in the substrate by the heating cables? Because the roots, esp for those short rooted plants, will not reach THAT deep and there's no way the bottom fert's gonna reach the roots too? I've read a few books and even Dennerle is recommednding it. Apart from the fact that these are written for tenperate c'tries, they actually have some sense where the circulation part is concerned.

Comments?

[anakin]

Hiyah everyone! Have this question - Are heating cables really necessary? I've got a few replies earlier saying that it's not required. But the more I think about it, the more the thought nags at me when I saw the anaerobic substrate at Teo's yesterday.

Guys and gals, and esp for Vinz (because you know where the following info is coming from[] ) Nutrients (esp Fe needs to be kept in the bivalent form (Fe2) which plants' roots readily absorb. While the presence of too much O2 will turn it into the trivalent form Fe3. Now, having a thick substrate with the base fert at the bottom or fert with chelates in them ensures that it stays in the bivalant form.

But here comes the nagging part - most of us have quite thick fert - about 2 or more inches of fert. roots cannot survive too well in anaerobic conditions, right? Therefore they wouldn't extend too deep into the substrate.

So, would it be safe to say that we might be wasting our thick base fert then, because the base fert at the bottom of the tank will not be circulated in the substrate by the heating cables? Because the roots, esp for those short rooted plants, will not reach THAT deep and there's no way the bottom fert's gonna reach the roots too? I've read a few books and even Dennerle is recommednding it. Apart from the fact that these are written for tenperate c'tries, they actually have some sense where the circulation part is concerned.

Comments?

[anakin]

Hiyah everyone! Have this question - Are heating cables really necessary? I've got a few replies earlier saying that it's not required. But the more I think about it, the more the thought nags at me when I saw the anaerobic substrate at Teo's yesterday.

Guys and gals, and esp for Vinz (because you know where the following info is coming from[] ) Nutrients (esp Fe needs to be kept in the bivalent form (Fe2) which plants' roots readily absorb. While the presence of too much O2 will turn it into the trivalent form Fe3. Now, having a thick substrate with the base fert at the bottom or fert with chelates in them ensures that it stays in the bivalant form.

But here comes the nagging part - most of us have quite thick fert - about 2 or more inches of fert. roots cannot survive too well in anaerobic conditions, right? Therefore they wouldn't extend too deep into the substrate.

So, would it be safe to say that we might be wasting our thick base fert then, because the base fert at the bottom of the tank will not be circulated in the substrate by the heating cables? Because the roots, esp for those short rooted plants, will not reach THAT deep and there's no way the bottom fert's gonna reach the roots too? I've read a few books and even Dennerle is recommednding it. Apart from the fact that these are written for tenperate c'tries, they actually have some sense where the circulation part is concerned.

Comments?

[DEA]

ehh
the conditions in the substrate turn anaerobic when the plants are not doing well (plant roots transport oxygen)
the plants dun die because of anaerobic conditions
this taken from dennerle handbook

[anakin]

Sorry DEA, I meant the roots of the plants may not reach down deep into the anaerobic layers. Is this true? Just thinking if this is true, then the bottom base fert may be wasted. Then a heating cable may be needed to circulate the nutrients...

[vinz]

That's partially why we slope the substrate... the taller, bigger plants (that tend to grow extensive root systems) are usually in the back while the smaller plants are in front.

[Phang]

My 2 cents worth...
and correct me if I'm wrong..

the heating cables won't do much good if the tank is not linked to a chiller...
I have a heating cable for my tank previously... substrate still turn black... basically tank temperature not low enough to create the difference for the circulation..

and there should not be much concern regarding the iron becoming trivalent and not useful as the water flow between the substrate and column is slight and gradual...

Basically, substrate heaters are of no good unless water could be chilled to 26-27C...
or else substrate would still turn black and anaerobic...

[vinz]

I haven't read a lot on this, but the current depths most of us use pose no problems for medium and large plants like echinodoruses and lotuses to penetrate. As long healthy roots grow all over the substrate, the soil will not remain anaerobic for long.

To me the heating cables are optional. I'm not sure of the wattage of heating cables, but I do know most heating/cooling devices run up quite a bill.

I recommend that you read Diana Walstad's 'Ecology of a Planted Aquarium'. A few copies are available at the library, but you usually have to make a reservation to find the book. While not many people subscribe to her methods, many agree it's provides an excellent insight into the ecology of the planted tank.

[M0rph3us]

so when adding the soil and substrate we slope it? like from both ends think to the middle thinner? or from the back thick to the front thin? my substrate is going to be abt 6-8cm think.. without soil..

[vinz]

Usually, it's back thick to front thin. Don't have to follow this rule, you can make the back middle higher, or one corner higher. Depends on your layout.