Fishless Cycling

[vinz]

A good fishless cycling article at Practical FishKeeping website. Recommended read even if you already have tanks.

[illumnae]

this was asked in another thread but i think it wasn't answered, so i'd like to ask it here since it's a thread dedicated to fishless cycling.

basically, where can we get liquid ammonia to kickstart the fishless cycling process here in singapore? i understand some people use fish food, but that extends the time as the food needs time to rot and convert to ammonia...plus you get the unsightly white hairy fungus on the food while it is being disintigrated

[vinz]

I don't know where you can get ammonia, but I want to point out that article explains why you should not use chemical fishless cycling.

Briefly, other than the filter bacteria that breaks down ammonia, etc, you also need the other type of bacteria that breaks down organics into ammonia. If you use ammonia cycling, the latter type of bacteria does not grow and your tank is not fully 'mature'. Read the article for a better explanation.

[illumnae]

ok thanks for the heads up vincent

[Plantbrain]

I've been critical of FC methods since it became a web pop culture.
I always wonder why would anyone add all that to their tank without any fish just to prime a filter? You can do that in a small bucket without wasting all the water and testing. Add 4 cap fulls of NH3 into 2 gallon of water in a bucket, wait 4 weeks. You can fill the aquarium and add some floating plants a few days before you put the primed filter on it.

Simple and keeps the NH4 and waste NO3 out of the aquarium.
No algae, etc.

You can add mulm, old tank water from another tank, zeolite, do frequent water changes for the 1st month(you should anyway), add plants etc........many things can avoid waiting 3-4 weeks and are better options.

This method has many issues I just do not understand why so many support it's use? How did folks manage to "eek by" in the past?
Seems the method caused more issues, at least for planted tanks than it helps, that much has been painfully clear.



Regards,
Tom Barr

[JamesCampbell]

A good way to cycle a tank with no fish is to use a mature filter sponge and put it in the filter in the fishless tank.

[leclair]

that is one way to go if one has existing matured tanks.

If it is totally new start up , then the ammonia has to come from somewhere first.

[cponkshe]

A good fishless cycling article at Practical FishKeeping website. Recommended read even if you already have tanks.

Vinz,
This page is not available on the net .
kindly guide
thanks.

[RonWill]

Mulm, ramhorn snails, sponge filter/driftwood from an established tank... some old habits that worked for me.

[cdckjn]

I read somewhere that one guy started his cycling by throwing in some fish food. This will kick off the cycling process.

[ameenuksg]

I tried that but water got so dirty/cloudy that the plants had died and had to re-scape the whole tank again. Ayyo....!

I too wanted to do fishless cycling but it seems that ammonia in a bottle is not available in Singapore. Got so tired searching everywhere.

Later on, did cycling with one molly fish which eats and poops alot. Molly still living and healthy with 10 babies.

[NingNing]

you will have to make liquid ammonia yourself. i bought ammonia in powder form and added water. then disolve it.. worked for me.

I did my cycling in a pail. cycled in about 2 weeks.

[ameenuksg]

Where did you get your ammonia in powder form ? I want one too !

[alvinchan80]

hi all.. i am starting a new set up tank.. and i did put in ammonia solution into the tank... i have 8% ammonia solution in the place i am working due to the production related matters that require ammonia solution for cleaning.. As for as i know, its only ammonia & water in the mixture..

this to share with everyone... http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/cycling2.htm

i added in the ammonia solution into the tank during its first week... and overnight, when i checked the nitrate & nitrite in the water, my nitrite was actually quite high after that.. so I assume that the first type of bacteria is already doing its 'job' while waiting for the second bacteria to convert the nitrite into nitrate... once i see a nitrate spike, i will be adding in plants to neutralize the nitrate... i dont know if it will work or not... but i sure hope it does.. the tank is going to be a semi plants/shrimps rock scape tank... so just hope that the ammonia doesnt kills anything.. or else its going to be a painful (& expensive) lesson....

question... should i continue adding in ammonia daily until i see ammonia -zero & nitrite - zero?? where will the excess ammonia go to? it will be continued to be 'fed' to the bacteria? will there be any side-effects??

anyone need some 8% ammonia solution?? but i dont have much left in the office, think maybe 20-30ml to spare....

[Navanod]

Yes bro you'll have to provide a constant ammonia source for the bacteria to feed on and grow, otherwise they'll die out and your tank will uncycle.
The excess ammonia will cause the bacteria population to expand to take advantage of the extra food source until they run out of places to grow. i.e Filter media completely full and all the tank, tubings, rocks, soil and even plant surfaces are fully covered. When bacteria population cannot catch up with ammonia input (no more space to grow, or too much ammonia all of a sudden), ammonia level will slowly accumulate and increase until it becomes toxic and then everything goes to hell from there.

[alvinchan80]

Yes bro you'll have to provide a constant ammonia source for the bacteria to feed on and grow, otherwise they'll die out and your tank will uncycle.
The excess ammonia will cause the bacteria population to expand to take advantage of the extra food source until they run out of places to grow. i.e Filter media completely full and all the tank, tubings, rocks, soil and even plant surfaces are fully covered. When bacteria population cannot catch up with ammonia input (no more space to grow, or too much ammonia all of a sudden), ammonia level will slowly accumulate and increase until it becomes toxic and then everything goes to hell from there.

so meaning i should continue to dose ammonia into the tank without any water change until i see ammonia & nitrite shows zero reading right? how much 8% ammonia solution should i be adding into the tank daily based on my 2ft tank with approx 80-90L water..
Tank will uncycle? omg.. sounds like its either i go all out or i go back to traditional way...
after that i can start putting in plants and shrimps?

[Navanod]

In a ideal case, the dose should be close to the amount of ammonia your expected livestock's bioload will produce when fully stocked. But I have no idea how much that'll be.
Its a very dynamic relationship between ammonia and bacteria population. I'm not sure how to track it without going through alot of trouble to find out the exact dose, take frequent ammonia readings and measure the time taken to degrade a fixed amount of ammonia. Not worth the trouble man hahaha.

All I can say is to be careful with that ammonia solution...too much of ammonia will cause toxicity to the nitrite degrading bacteria and kills them. Then the tank cycle will halt until the ammonia degrading bacteria reduces the ammonia to a level low enough for the nitrite eaters to start growing again.
So better way is to add a few drops a day rather than add alot at one shot and expect the tank to cycle based on this one dose.
The aim is not the ideal aim of getting a large population of bacteria so that the full livestock can be added at one shot. The aim is to just start a small colony of both types of bacteria and then slowly add livestocks so the bacteria have time to respond and increase based on bioload.

Am I making sense?

[alvinchan80]

In a ideal case, the dose should be close to the amount of ammonia your expected livestock's bioload will produce when fully stocked. But I have no idea how much that'll be.
Its a very dynamic relationship between ammonia and bacteria population. I'm not sure how to track it without going through alot of trouble to find out the exact dose, take frequent ammonia readings and measure the time taken to degrade a fixed amount of ammonia. Not worth the trouble man hahaha.

All I can say is to be careful with that ammonia solution...too much of ammonia will cause toxicity to the nitrite degrading bacteria and kills them. Then the tank cycle will halt until the ammonia degrading bacteria reduces the ammonia to a level low enough for the nitrite eaters to start growing again.
So better way is to add a few drops a day rather than add alot at one shot and expect the tank to cycle based on this one dose.
The aim is not the ideal aim of getting a large population of bacteria so that the full livestock can be added at one shot. The aim is to just start a small colony of both types of bacteria and then slowly add livestocks so the bacteria have time to respond and increase based on bioload.

Am I making sense?

understand.. which means i might have overdose on ammonia last night... oops.... i think i might just leave it to cycle 'naturally' since there are already ammonia in the water.. just take it that i just give those bacteria a start with some 'food'...

[vincxlim]

I did a fishless cycle too, but instead of using chemical ammonia, I used frozen prawns to provide the ammonia. I use BioHome+ for my media and here's what I did:

1. Add media to tank
2. Added tap water treated with SeaChem Prime
3. Aerate tank for 4 hours
4. Add some Super Battle Bacteria 8000
5. Wash frozen prawn with tap water treated with SeaChem Prime
6. Put prawn in netting and throw inside tank, leave it there for about 12 hours
7. Follow thru with testing for Ammonia, NitrIte and NitrAte
8. Add more prawn to for ammonia to feed the bacs.

[SeahSengYong]

Informative.
Now I understand why tank cycling is so important.