Worms or parasites???

**maverick** · 18th Nov 2002, 09:05

Need your advice urgently, my fish has been passing out white shit for past 2 weeks despite my efforts. I have added internal bacteria medication, added a heater, changed water twice a week and so on... it has not been eating for slightly more than a week too... it just swims around aimlessly. seems that there are some popping scales on it as well.... could you tell me what is wrong as i have read through the thread but have no clue on it.... worried on introducing the wrong form of medication..... it will not eat anything, bloodworms, mealworms, superwoms, pellets... nothing....bought the 'ocean free' anti-bacteria medication and used it for the fish. have put in with a 3l bath (1ml of mdeication) for a 20min bath as adviced on the instructions. At the end of 20mins, after i have put the fish back into the tank, i saw long stringy thin lines coming out of the ***. instead of shit, it had something else coming out. there are about 5 pieces altogether and the lengths vary from 2-5inches!!! are they worms or are they something else??? intend to give it another dose of the medication on Wed....

**maverick** · 18th Nov 2002, 09:05

Need your advice urgently, my fish has been passing out white shit for past 2 weeks despite my efforts. I have added internal bacteria medication, added a heater, changed water twice a week and so on... it has not been eating for slightly more than a week too... it just swims around aimlessly. seems that there are some popping scales on it as well.... could you tell me what is wrong as i have read through the thread but have no clue on it.... worried on introducing the wrong form of medication..... it will not eat anything, bloodworms, mealworms, superwoms, pellets... nothing....bought the 'ocean free' anti-bacteria medication and used it for the fish. have put in with a 3l bath (1ml of mdeication) for a 20min bath as adviced on the instructions. At the end of 20mins, after i have put the fish back into the tank, i saw long stringy thin lines coming out of the ***. instead of shit, it had something else coming out. there are about 5 pieces altogether and the lengths vary from 2-5inches!!! are they worms or are they something else??? intend to give it another dose of the medication on Wed....

**maverick** · 18th Nov 2002, 09:05

Need your advice urgently, my fish has been passing out white shit for past 2 weeks despite my efforts. I have added internal bacteria medication, added a heater, changed water twice a week and so on... it has not been eating for slightly more than a week too... it just swims around aimlessly. seems that there are some popping scales on it as well.... could you tell me what is wrong as i have read through the thread but have no clue on it.... worried on introducing the wrong form of medication..... it will not eat anything, bloodworms, mealworms, superwoms, pellets... nothing....bought the 'ocean free' anti-bacteria medication and used it for the fish. have put in with a 3l bath (1ml of mdeication) for a 20min bath as adviced on the instructions. At the end of 20mins, after i have put the fish back into the tank, i saw long stringy thin lines coming out of the ***. instead of shit, it had something else coming out. there are about 5 pieces altogether and the lengths vary from 2-5inches!!! are they worms or are they something else??? intend to give it another dose of the medication on Wed....

**maverick** · 18th Nov 2002, 09:05

Need your advice urgently, my fish has been passing out white shit for past 2 weeks despite my efforts. I have added internal bacteria medication, added a heater, changed water twice a week and so on... it has not been eating for slightly more than a week too... it just swims around aimlessly. seems that there are some popping scales on it as well.... could you tell me what is wrong as i have read through the thread but have no clue on it.... worried on introducing the wrong form of medication..... it will not eat anything, bloodworms, mealworms, superwoms, pellets... nothing....bought the 'ocean free' anti-bacteria medication and used it for the fish. have put in with a 3l bath (1ml of mdeication) for a 20min bath as adviced on the instructions. At the end of 20mins, after i have put the fish back into the tank, i saw long stringy thin lines coming out of the ***. instead of shit, it had something else coming out. there are about 5 pieces altogether and the lengths vary from 2-5inches!!! are they worms or are they something else??? intend to give it another dose of the medication on Wed....

**Allen_1971** · 20th Nov 2002, 09:28

Hi Mav,

not sure if your fish is still alive but from what u described sounds like your fish got internal parasites... internal bacteria medicine won't help at all... you gotta get some anti-parasite medicine...

However, to be honest most fish in that stage of infection don't pull through... it is still good to bomb the entire tank with anti parasite meds though as these worms will attempt to find a host again if they haven't already.

**Vican** · 24th Nov 2002, 01:17

sounds like nematode infestation. Better look for internal parasite medicine.
There's Huey Huang Aquarium medicine for internal parasite that you might like to try. Some people recommends it. Didn't work for my camallanus infection. Found at Taiwan shop at Serangoon North.

If not, you'll have to look for bird dewormer that carries Levamisole. That treats camallanus. It worked within 24 hrs of treating my arowana.

Good luck. What fish are you keeping anyway?

**weileong** · 24th Nov 2002, 02:45

Vic, you know anywhere else that might sell this Levamisole??? I think I practically hunt the whole SG but couldn't find them anymore. Talked to the shop owner and many tell you that a lot of pple don't use them. Meaning they don't deworm their birds?

Now I'm using the MQ4 + MQ5 together, this afternoon still see a 3cm long red worm hanging out from my golden barb anus, now I don't see it anymore, wonder if it's cure but from your experience seems like it won't help. Hiak, see how man.

**Vican** · 25th Nov 2002, 00:31

I've checked my notes and this bird dewormer is from an Australian company called Avian Science. It's a dewormer solution.

I did get the MQ4+5. Don't give up hope yet because camallanus is a nasty bug. Maybe only levamisole can work on camallanus. Other intestinal parasites might be able to cure with MQ4+5.

After all, this combination is the recommended medicine from them.

From what you've described, might not be camallanus but some other intestinal infestation. The camallanus worms I saw sticking out of my aro's anus were only 5mm at the most.

So, either your fish has been infected a long time, or it's something else.

Good luck!

I would recommend going to famous big birdshops in Singapore to look for it. I've checked with some vet and they don't carry it even. However, I found out that it's also used in National Cancer Centre to aid cancer patient's nutrient/medicine absorbtion thru the intestines.

So, levamisole actually has 2 fold action
1) kill camallanus
2) improve the fish's appetite

**weileong** · 25th Nov 2002, 11:20

thanks, looks like I'll have to call them up one by one

**Allen_1971** · 25th Nov 2002, 11:23

Hey let us know if you find the stuff? I'm pretty keen to get some as well.

**weileong** · 25th Nov 2002, 12:06

I call and call everywhere, found one place making feed for pigs, they do not sell but I sweet talk to him telling him if he don't help my whole fish tank gone. I will be collecting it from him now.

It contains about 17.5% of Levamisole.

**Vican** · 25th Nov 2002, 12:57

That's a really smart move. Where is this shop? Levamisole is also used as cattle/animal dewormer. Dunno why vets don't carry this though

**Allen_1971** · 25th Nov 2002, 13:38

muhahaha... I wonder how many people will be able to &quot;sweet talk&quot; him before he realizes hes become the supplier for the local fish hobbyist community

**weileong** · 25th Nov 2002, 13:56

Okie I collect the levamisole HCL from that guy, they are located in Tuas, the content is 17.5% by weight and the other part are coloring and sugar, it is meant for chicken. Chicken also considered as birds right?

Not sure if this sugar will affect my fish. I will give it a try. I guess you guys better not try to call him up else he will be very busy.

**weileong** · 25th Nov 2002, 15:50

I calculated the dosage, on krib, got one guy dose 1ml/7.5litres using 10mg/ml Levamisole solution. For my powder it is 17.5% Levamisole HCL by weight.

Therefore I calculated for my 400 litres water I should be adding about 3g of the powder.

That means I will have enough powder to last a lifetime. I will give this a try then if it works I can pass some of the left overs to you guys by mail? I will keep everyone updated

**Allen_1971** · 25th Nov 2002, 20:59

cool....

though I'm not sure what the postal service will think about you sending powdery substances in the mail.[

]

**weileong** · 25th Nov 2002, 21:16

it's orange color powder and not exactly powder as well so I don't think that will be a problem.

**Vican** · 25th Nov 2002, 23:40

I'm glad you've gotten the levamisole.
Only thing is that after adding your powder to the tank, it might attract ants...

Anyhow, based on application to my tank, here is what happened.

The worm-rid solution is pinkish in color, looks like cough mixture. After pouring into the tank, can see that the tank water becomes a little turbid.

It soon clears fast enough and I didn't see any trace as evidence that I had added the medication.

16hrs later (in the morning), I noticed that my aro had some respiratory distress, so I changed 50% of the tank water. Noticed that the tank had turned cloudy, like a major bacteria boom. I suspect that it's due to some chelating agent in the medication.

Another 8 hrs later, I changed another 50% of the water. Noticed that there are white slimey substances on the gravel and on leaves of plants. Quite a lot of work to clear those.

Noticed that all traces of camallanus had disappeared from the arowana.

Notes:
- The dosage recommended at the krib recommends 100% water change at 24hrs. I didn't follow this exactly because I saw that my aro was having some respiratory distress. Probably because of the turbidity of the tank water

- Also followed up with 30-40% water change over the next few days daily
- When you see camallanus sticking out of the anus of the fish, it means that they are releasing their eggs into the water.
- These eggs are normally eaten by copepods (small organisms living in your tank
- So, even if you managed to pull out all the worms, the eggs are still in your tank, waiting to be eaten by another fish and infect it.
- Only some of the worms that are near the anus will protrude out. There might be others that had infested further up the gut and you'd see no signs until they grow so long that they reach the anus.
-It's not recommended to pull out the worms because of the nasty hooked jaws that they have. The head might still be stuck onto the gut of the fish after you have pulled out its body. This will cause further internal bacteria infection of the inner gut, killing the fish.
- Also read elsewhere that sometimes, you might pull out the gut along with the worm!
-normally transmitted via livebearers

This camallanus is a particularly nasty bug and I hope you guys never get it. It was quite worrying for me because the infected fish was an arowana.
Not only was it a $1k fish, the digestive system of the fish is also less advanced compared to other fishes, thus a lot of the fish deworming medication are not suitable for it. So, I had taken a major risk in putting bird deworming medication to clear the camallanus infestation.

I was thinking, what the heck??!! If I don't treat the fish, it's gonna die somewhere down the line.

**weileong** · 26th Nov 2002, 00:01

Thanks for the help vic, now I see that one of the worm coming out of the anus has curved and the curved part has turn white, looking like that worm is 1/2 dead. This medicine really works

I could see this fish is more active now, swimming around. Before that it is always hidding somewhere in the plants. Will update again tomorrow.