regarding PMDD

[M0rph3us]

tawauboy u got icq?? would be better if u got iCQ.. quite hard to communicate here

[tawauboy]

why don't you get seachem flourish from any lfs, k2s04 from dr mallicks and jobe/horti(green) sticks. flourish will provide the trace elements, k from k2so4 and n,p,k from jobe/horti.

both flourish and k2so4 go into the water column while jobe/horti goes deep into your gravel. this method will minimise the chances of an algae attack as you are denying n and p to algae.

you can consider trying this approach first.

[M0rph3us]

ok will do just that.. thanks a million... guess when i become familiar with this then i will start full on PMDD.. loads of thanks

[FC]

Hi Vican,

I guess lost of your fish's apetite may be due to high nitrate (commonly known cause). Geoliquid if I am not wrong, contain particle bonding agent which makes the water cloudy. To confirm that, can you tell me whether the filter and its' pipes are filled with brown slimmy stuffs after adding it?
If this is the case, it is also the culprit, I think, which affect the fish for a few days. By the way, what is your tank dimension?

[vinz]

Morpheus,

Restating myself... PMDD is too much trouble. I use Flourish, Flourish Iron and K2SO4. Works well for my tanks. In place of Flourish you can try any of the other commercial fert... most of them have a good mix of macros and micros.

The main thing you need to supplement is K. For NO3 or PO4, only, i say again ONLY, if your tanks are short of those 2. For PO4, I'll rather use Jobe or Horti sticks in the substrate. The other ones I'll consider are Mg and Ca.

[vinz]

Vican, check your pH.

My RTG loss appetite recently. My tank was showing early signs of green water recently and I tested my NO3... it was way beyond the 40ppm limit of the test kit. Took three 30% water changes to bring it down to 20 or 30 ppm. His appetite then was still normal (so it may not be a factor for your aro's appetite).

I performed three 30% water changes over 3 days, which screwed up my KH levels. Over the same period, I was adjusting my CO2 injection rate. Big mistake. My pH dropped to 6.4 from a previous level of 6.7 to 6.9. With each change of water his appetite got worse and actually stopped eating for 2 days. Tonight, pH was at 6.6... still bad appetite. I added another round of baking soda which should raise it to 6 or 7 from 5 KH. This should thereotically bring the pH up to 6.7 or 6.8. 2 hours later, his appetite returned. []

I think the biggest factor is water condition... investigate that.

FC, some guys on the arowana forums have tried Geo-liquid and report increased appetite. I tried Geo-Liquid for Planted Tanks and my arowana and SAEs' appetite increased after a day. So it might not be Geo-liquid, either.

[FC]

Thanks, Vinz. Does Geo liquid contain the particle bonding agent? Is it cloudy after adding and then clear in a day? Do you have the brown slimmy things on your filter and its' pipe?

[vinz]

Geo-liquid claims it's not a flocculant, if that's what that means.

It is suppose to turn your water cloudy initially and clear within hours or days depending on the quality of the water in the first place. As for the brown slimy stuff.... I usually have some form of brown stuff in my filter and pipes even if I don't use Geo-liquid or any other kind of agent. But otherwise, nothing out of the ordinary happens after I use GL.

I used GL once in a while. The first time I used it, it cleared my green water (an ealier incident, in a diff tank), but without a controlled experiment or frequent and consistent results, I can't sayif it's a coincidence or GL at work.

[Allen_1971]

I've used geo liquid a couple of times... mostly cuz I've accidently dug up a ball of clay or done massive rescaping in my tank. In general I've seen no obvious ill effects from the use of it. Like Vinz I also have the same brown slimy stuff even before I used GL, so I'm sure thats not the cause of it.

[ZeRoC00l]

I'm using PMDD and some other commercial premixed fert.

Personally, PDMM is a bit more troublesome, but if you have a heavily planted tank, dosing commercial fert can cost a BOMB!

DO NOT overdose PMDD as you'll get a algae tank instead!

Dosing more of K is still ok, but NOT Mg!

Over dose of Mg inhabits plants from taking in nutrients.

Ratio of PMDD is depending on yr tank, each tank is different.

Dr. Ma???? trace element dosing is 1 drop per 10L, got some printing problem on the paper. I just drop 2 per week, it's really high in Fe!

[M0rph3us]

im wondering if the whole range of seachem fert is enough.. like seachem potassium blah blah.. do i still need to have a little pmDD because the whole range lacks some stuff??

[tawauboy]

if you use the complete range from any aquarium products manufacturer such as seachem, dupla, dennerle and etc, that would take care of you plants nutrients needs. will save a lot of hassle but is unhealthy on your pocket. [] but you get what you paid for.

[M0rph3us]

im planning to get seachem flourish, excel, iron, trace, potassium, nitrogen, phosphorus... will getting all of them ensure that my plants are getting everything?? is there any item that i can omit??

[vinz]

Morpheus,

If you're using Flourish, Flourish Trace is not really needed.
If you're injecting CO2, Flourish Excel is not needed.
If your tank has enough NO3, Flourish N is not needed.
If your tank has enough PO4, Flourish P is not needed.
I advocate K, but I find Flourish K too expensive for the levels I'm dosing at.

The APD is questioning the need for extra Fe now. I'm waiting to see how it pans out. Anyway, Flourish has some Fe in it. Personally, I've stopped additional Fe dosing as an experiment. But then, I have laterite balls in the substrate.

N and P can be controlled by water change, plants species, fishload and feeding. Of course these methods are quite inaccurate and inflexible.

[Allen_1971]

Btw, for those of you requiring to dose PO4, I recently spotted the fleet enema product which toshi mentioned... I looked at the composition and it was basically sodium phosphate. This is probably a cheaper alternative to using flourish P.

[M0rph3us]

so that means flourish can be a complete fertilizer alone? will get flourish then.. as for iron will be getting the laterite balls...

[vinz]

Morpheus,

It depends on what your tank needs. Start with a basic fertiliser (e.g. Seachem Flourish, JBL Ferropol, Sera, etc) then get other stuff to supplement what the fertiliser lacks. Not all are the same. Flourish has low K, so I supplement with K2SO4 (because I dose heavily and have large tanks). Someone mentioned somewhere one of the other ferts have an undisclosed but supposedly high amount of K.

NO3 or PO4 shortage is a possiblity with some heavily planted tanks with light fishload, so maybe N and P supplmentation maybe be needed.

The gist is, it depends on your tank and the fert you use.

[chongj88]

Here is my $0.02 worth from my little experience and what I learnt from lurking on this board for sometime... My 3ft tank has just recently settled and Seachem's Flourish and Potassium is all I use now. Potassium was a recent addition last weekend. And since adding, I must say that the results are simply fantastic. All my plants are bubbling like there is no tomorrow (exaggeration lah but you get the point) compared to just dosing with Flourish alone. Even my recent (also on the same weekend) addition (glosso) is bubbling!

Conclusion for me is that potassium is really important. Am contemplating getting Flourish Iron but then my plants do not seem to exhibit iron deficiency. Anyways, I got myself an iron test kit. Will see how it goes.

Cheers,
John

[bclee]

I think only Seachem Flourish is short of K. JBL, Sera, TMG & others contains some amount of K. Those that uses Flourish do need to dose K separately.

For me I swapped to K2SO4 from Seachem Flourish Potassium for cost reasons.

BC

[tawauboy]

so it seems that seachem flourish + k2s04 combination is the next best thing, now that tmg is not available.

do we get paid for singing such praises of seachem? [] [] []