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Thread: Need some help guys :(

  1. #1
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    Need some help guys :(

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    Hope a few gurus could help me out, seems im plague again with problems.
    Going to detail every regime, hopefully some bros could help pinpoint my
    critical errors.

    Tank Dimensions: 20cube 10L

    Lighting Intensity(No of Watts) :12Watts
    No. of hours your lights are on :9 hrs

    CO2 Injection Rate (bps) : 1 bubble per 3 sec
    Type of CO2 (DIY/Cylinder) : pressurised
    Method of Injection (e.g. Diffusor/Reactor) :atomizer
    Dropchecker used : ADA drop checker with 4/5dkh solution; green-dark green

    Liquid fertilisers Used/Fertilization regime:
    i prick a needle hole on the sechem bottle sealants and dose according to this drop.
    2x drops sechem nitrogen - 3 times per week, mon/wed/sat
    1x drop sechem phos - 2 times per week, mon/wed
    1x drop sechem trace - 2 times per week, tues, fri
    1x drop sechem potassium - 1 time per week, thur
    1/6 teaspoon sechem equilibrium - 1 time per week, sunday during WC.

    Type of Filter: gex 250l/h ohf
    When was the filter last washed : weekly siphon of food, biomedia soak in tank water to remove excess mulm twice a week.
    Filter media used : Mr aqua ceramic ring,Biohome plus, wool pad
    When was the media last changed : added mr aqua 2 weeks back, soak 2
    weeks in water before adding to canister.

    Age of setup : 3 month +

    Water change frequency : 1 week once
    Amount changed :30%
    Water top up per day : 500ml due to 9cm diy fan.

    Water surface movement (None/gentle/turbulent) : gentle
    Circulation (None/gentle/turbulent) :gentle

    Tank Temperature :26-28C

    Chemical Properties (current)
    -------------------------------------
    KH (dKH): 0
    GH (dGH): 0
    pH :5~6.6
    Nitrite :0 ppm
    Copper : 0 ppm
    ammonia : 0ppm

    Bioload (Number and type of fish and plants) :
    Lushgrown taiwan moss as backdrop with japanese hairgrass. [5 months]
    3 boraras brig and 2 snails. [5 weeks]

    Feeding : Hikari micro tetra pellet
    method of feeding - 3 micro pellets per day, pellets are flatten with tweezer, split in half then feed to fish. Food gets eaten immediately. Minority of food however does get sucked up the inlet if they can carried away by the current.

    Problems
    -sun. wc. change bps -> 1 bubble per 2 sec instead of 3. lower airstone power by half.

    -mon. All the boraras reverted back to pale from red. They have been red for about 3 weeks, fed them as usual, no change. dropchecker green.

    -wed. sudden outbreak of bga on the 3rd day, 2-3 strands of hair algae [2-4cm]. The bga coverage on soil was bad as i usually get this at the end of the week. Tested water, ph 5 even though dropchecker was only green, ammonia/nitrite=0ppm. Remove bga infested soil. Trim away moss with hair algae. Perform water change 30%, siphon water to bucket, soak bio ceramic rings in water in the bucket [exisiting tank water].

    -thur. boraras still pale, notice stressful behaviour such as swimming frantically up and down the tank wall and jerking frequently.

    -fri. Lost one boraras, have no idea how it got siphoned into the inlet as the holes are pretty small and i had the upslope of the ohf blocked by a course sponge. Its head and body was split in half... I took out the moss and noticed browning on the other side of the lush grown moss. Took the biomedias out temporary and place them in the bucket, siphon out debris from the ohf, put everything back in and fill the canister with aged dechlorintated water. Biomedias were not washed.

    As of now, boraras still pale, 1 swimming frantically up and down the tank
    walls. 1 stays only at the tank bottom. Guess i will lose both by tomorrow.
    Nerite snails are fine and plants are growing well with bubbling.

    I do not know if its poisoning, the water used for wc have problems, the water used for top up has problems or others. I have also no clue why everything seems to be growing well, i still have BGA and it grows like nobody's business, maybe its my mosswall "decaying" on the other side or overfeeding, but still ammonia test still shows 0ppm.

    Appreciate some help. thanks

  2. #2
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    For BBA, IMHO increase the CO2 until the drop checker show light green. In my opinion it is hard to differentiate between blue and green, may be I'm a bit color blind

    Seachem excel will temporarily help
    -Robert
    Aquascaping is a marriage between Art and Farming
    My Blog: http://aquatic-art.blogspot.com/

  3. #3
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    Your KH reads 0, maybe this explains the big flucuation in PH?

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    You should stop adding the CO2 for now and aerate the tank to see if the fish health improve. You can always get the algae off and plants to grow back but you cannot re-animate fish though. For a 10l tank, 1 bubble per 3 sec of CO2 might be tad too much but not sure if there is anything blowing off the CO2 fast in your tank or not.

    Regards,
    Peter Gwee
    Plant Physiology by Taiz and Zeiger

  5. #5
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    ph 5~6.6 ?
    how you measure them?

  6. #6
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    surprisingly, didnt lose any boraras today. They were still active, but same, all 2 of them are behaving oddly, swimming frantically up and down the tank walls. Both of their colors are now pale but eating properly.

    BGA sprung right back after being cleared on wednesday, they are developing slime now.

    Newtank,
    KH =0 means no buffer for PH swings. This is understood. Nothing new in your post.

    Peter,
    Drop checker is reading green -> to darkgreen. 3 seconds for 1 bubble too much ? I have increased the airpump back to full strength, probably that explains why i didnt lose any fishes today, but not sure what they are stressed about as there is nothing new i have changed besides those I have listed from monday.

    I plan to move the fishes to a 700ml temporary tank with existing tank water tomorrow during my wc while i vacumn the soil again after removing the HG in that area.

    question ?
    -Do i need to re aclimate them again for a couple of hours before introducing back to the tank as I may need to do a 100% water change tomorrow since i need to plant back the HG before adding water. Is this advisable or should i put it off to avoid shocking the fishes ? and go for just a 3 day black out with good aeration ?

    I will wait for your helpful advise before progressing then. Many thanks

    eddy,
    5-6.6 PH is a range which exhibits my usual PH.

    shadow,
    it should be BGA as i recognise the green slime on my HG again.

  7. #7
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    Fertilization regime
    1ml of Seachem Nitrogen per dose 3x a week
    4ml of Seachem Phosphorus per dose 3x a week
    Get regular flourish instead of trace and dose at 0.5ml 3x a week
    1/32 tsp of Seachem Equilibrium only after a water change each week
    Target 30-35ppm of CO2

    Your underdosing is properly why you are still getting algae issues.

    Clean the tank well but don't overdo the water changes. You do not want to kill fishes just to get rid of algae issues!

    Regards,
    Peter Gwee
    Plant Physiology by Taiz and Zeiger

  8. #8
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    Notice your 4ml per dose for phosphorus abit on the high side, checked with fertfriend and its around 12ml per week= 6ppm, the recommended dose is not 0.5-1.5ppm, glup ? Special treatments for algae problems ?
    Last edited by torque6; 12th May 2008 at 03:55.

  9. #9
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    Target NO3 at 10ppm per dose 3x a week
    Target PO4 at 2 ppm per dose 3x a week
    That is about right for EI based on your highlight tank of 4.6w/g.

    Regards,
    Peter Gwee
    Plant Physiology by Taiz and Zeiger

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterGwee View Post
    Target NO3 at 10ppm per dose 3x a week
    Target PO4 at 2 ppm per dose 3x a week
    That is about right for EI based on your highlight tank of 4.6w/g.

    Regards,
    Peter Gwee
    yup, thats about correct. Thanks again peter. My fishes are still ok though they have been like this for over a week now.

  11. #11
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    Fishes are back to a robust red again after making the following changes. Water looks surprising clear as well.

    -Substract cleaning of BGA and replanted all the HGs
    -removal of bga infested wool filter and clean biomedia in existing tank water
    -replace wool filter with new gex carbon pad
    -rearrange biomedia to biohomeplus ->gex carbon pad -> mr aqua ceramic ring
    -added 1ml sechem stability to biofilter after wc.
    -aclimate boraras back into tank after 12hrs with 20ml of new tank water injection per 30mins interval
    -redo fert regime to target
    20ppm NO3 with 1ml dose 3x per week
    1.5ppm PO4 with 1ml dose 3x per week
    0.5ml trace 2x per week
    1/32 teaspoon of equilibrium at WC
    20ppm K with 1ml dose 1x per week, rest PPM substitute from equilibrium+sechem nitrogen

    Again, i would like to express my appreciation to peter for his insightfulness and wisdom. My sincere thanks.

    I will continue to update if it goes well.
    Last edited by torque6; 16th May 2008 at 11:36.

  12. #12
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    Fifth day after vac+ proper ferts, fishes are ok, but seem BGA is reappearing on the soil again, looks like i havent done a good job in vacuming them....
    Do i have to resort to a blackout for 3 days? I have read when bga dies, it becomes more platable for nerite snails, how true is this ?
    Last edited by torque6; 17th May 2008 at 10:35.

  13. #13
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    A picture ID might be better in case you ID it wrongly.

    Regards,
    Peter Gwee
    Plant Physiology by Taiz and Zeiger

  14. #14
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    posted some pics Peter, in case i may have id it wrongly


  15. #15
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    They reappear after only 3 days of which i have already dose 2ml of both kno3 and po4, added 0.5ml of trace and 1ml potassium. Water change on tuesday with equilibrium 1/32 teaspoon. Quite rapid growth as i can see the algae bubbling.

  16. #16
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    Not very clear pics but it seems like green dust to me more than BGA.

    Regards,
    Peter Gwee
    Plant Physiology by Taiz and Zeiger

  17. #17
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    Peter,
    I thought gda are zoo pores that grow on aquarium glass, but leaves the hardscape and plants alone? Eventhough my first pic is spreading upwards to the glass, the majority of the algae is spreading on the surface of the soil in between the 3 rocks as well as in the soil right under the glass panel.

    I have check on jake's planted website couple of months back and my hairgrass looks like this after 1 week plus if i fail to clear it up. They have this dark green slime smothering them.


    This had led me to believe they were bga. My aq thread previously documents my journal when i used myacin on them. It was successful. However they returned in about 2 weeks since i havent not started using EI or dosing any nitrates at all.

    I am quite lost right now as to want needs to be done, I could only observe and continue to dose to ensure my plants are able to compete well with them. If it was gda, things would be simplier as i would just leave it to finish its 10-21 days cycle before clearing it up.
    Appreciate for your prompt reply again. my sincere thanks.

  18. #18
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    It looks like BGA to me.
    I am not an EI dosing expert but here is my 2 cents.
    You need a big plant mass to compete with algae. Moss is slower grower, jap hair glass is probably a moderate grower. BGA can only means one thing, too much nutrient in the water and your plants just can't finish them all for what ever reason, and they are out compete by algae.

    Suck out as much BGA as possible, do water change and put in floating plants and fast grower such as hornwort, Amazon flog bits, duck weed, etc.

    Good luck.
    ~Loke





  19. #19
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    Does it stink? If not, it shouldn't be BGA. Either way, you need good cleaning and focus on plant growth rather than algae which you can kill through cleaning and blackouts.

    Regards,
    Peter Gwee
    Plant Physiology by Taiz and Zeiger

  20. #20
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    Loke,
    BGA occurs due to low NO3, not the other way round. Focus on plant growth and mass to outcompete algae has always been the key. Nothing new in your post which could be helpful.

    Peter,
    Come to think of it. many bros have reported that BGA stinks, strangely mine doesnt, but theres a very strong smell when i siphon them out of the tank and tried to clear the dark green strands from the hairgrass. Either that i am more tolerant to scent.

    Anyway, if you are right and its green dust, i will have to let it complete its 21 days algae cycle then clean it, or just do a blackout.

    Btw, do you have a close representation of a scenerio on how bga smells like? bad food ? rotting scent -> when you walk pass rubbish dump etc.

    thanks again.
    Last edited by torque6; 19th May 2008 at 03:32.

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