Advertisements
Aquatic Avenue Banner Tropica Shop Banner Fishy Business Banner
Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 108

Thread: DSM, Dry start method for starting a new planted tank

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    singapore
    Posts
    586
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Country
    Singapore
    Advertisements
    Fresh n Marine aQuarium Banner

    Advertise here

    Advertise here
    I experiment my HC at the lobby area of HDB on expose air. In certain days, they don't get any drop of water and still manage to survive. Now I have a big patch of HC roughly 60cm x 60cm , which I happily harvest them for trial in submerse , but every time they keep melting . Only with constant supply , I can afford to "keep trying".

    I will try Tom method for my office tank.

    Cheers

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Telok Blangah, SGP
    Posts
    10,205
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    Images
    78
    Country
    Singapore
    Plese try and let us know. I tried before, it grow nicely during the emerse time but when I start filling the tank, it slowly melt. No idea what is wrong, so I'm waiting for other success story
    -Robert
    Aquascaping is a marriage between Art and Farming
    My Blog: http://aquatic-art.blogspot.com/

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    KL
    Posts
    2,913
    Feedback Score
    0
    Images
    26
    Country
    Malaysia
    It should not melt. It could be lack of CO2? Just guessing here because for my emerse setups, if I put too much water, those underwater would be 'drowned' and turn to mush.
    You can if you dare to fail - Stan Chung

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    3
    Feedback Score
    0
    Country
    United_States

    co2

    Tom had mentioned on his site that when it comes time to flood you have to provide MASSIVE amounts of CO2 to compensate for the transition because you are moving from a state where there is a free exchange of gas to a state where CO2 is relatively restricted - there must be compensation for this fact so it does not shock the plants. A lack of CO2 could very likely be the cause of a melt off.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    3,149
    Feedback Score
    11 (92%)
    Country
    Singapore
    Quote Originally Posted by BJRuttenberg View Post
    Tom had mentioned on his site that when it comes time to flood you have to provide MASSIVE amounts of CO2 to compensate for the transition because you are moving from a state where there is a free exchange of gas to a state where CO2 is relatively restricted - there must be compensation for this fact so it does not shock the plants. A lack of CO2 could very likely be the cause of a melt off.
    Yes! You are absolutely right! When HC is emmersed, there's unlimited supply of CO2 in the open air where as in the water, CO2 is limited and CO2 dont always stay in the water for long, during the moment of submersed you got to crank(maybe 5-6 bps) up constant supply of CO2(24hr) for few days at least, so NO fauna is allow at this time till you see the HC starts to spread. Lighting as per normal.

    Read more on Greenhouse effect you will understand more!

    One think to note is when the water is cold, you tends to have richer CO2.

    MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!! TIME TO LAY BACK AND RELAX!
    A Journey Of A Thousand Miles Begins With A Single Step

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    West Midlands, UK
    Posts
    1,076
    Feedback Score
    0
    Country
    England
    I may try a 22oC (standard room temp for me) HC emmersed set-up and then when i flood attempt extreme CO2 for a while. When i start this i shall post a mini journal here to show my attempt. Bearing in mind thats all it shall be, an 'attempt'
    Verminator

    Aquatic fanatic and keen learner of aquascaping

    The canvas is what you make it...

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    58
    Feedback Score
    0
    Images
    1
    Country
    Scotland
    should i be concerned about mosses and liverworts melting when i first add water too? i have a dry start tank growing at the moment with only mosses and liverworts in it.
    kind regards,
    Louis Last

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    21
    Feedback Score
    0
    Country
    Singapore

    Re: DSM, Dry start method for starting a new planted tank

    Sorry to dig up such an old thread. may i ask when we flood the tank after DSM ends, Can Seachem Excel be overdosed instead of purely supplementing with CO2? Or carbon in the excel won't be utilised/absorbed efficiently compared to overdosing with compressed CO2?

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    4
    Feedback Score
    0
    Country
    Russian Federation

    Re: DSM, Dry start method for starting a new planted tank

    How many people are use ebay? I think...a lot of people) And I'm in this group =) But I suppose, that not all know, how do it easy and comfortable. You can gain Debit cards for ebay. I was looking the information on different sites and forums and came to a conclusion that using the paypal account is the safest way to pay with a debit card on ebay.
    Advice it to you =)

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    4
    Feedback Score
    0
    Country
    Russian Federation

    Re: DSM, Dry start method for starting a new planted tank

    How many people are use ebay? I think...a lot of people) And I'm in this group =) But I suppose, that not all know, how do it easy and comfortable. You can gain Debit cards for ebay. I was looking the information on different sites and forums and came to a conclusion that using the paypal account is the safest way to pay with Debit cards for ebay.
    Advice it to you =)

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    238
    Feedback Score
    0
    Country
    Singapore

    Re: DSM, Dry start method for starting a new planted tank

    had tried using this dry start method. But my 1st HC started melting after the 1st week. Irritated decided to pull out all melted parts and plant 2nd batch of HC. 3rd day in and 1 part of the hc began during dark to black. I believe its gonna melt also. What is wrong with it??

    I had covered the tank top with transparent plastic and covered the soil with water but leaving the leaves above it. Lights are on 7 hours (breakdown into 3hrs - 4hrs) daily. 4 tubes of T5HO 24watts 12k lightings. 2ft*1.5ft(height)*1ft tanks

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    3
    Feedback Score
    0
    Country
    United_States

    Re: DSM, Dry start method for starting a new planted tank

    Quote Originally Posted by Numbskull View Post
    had tried using this dry start method. But my 1st HC started melting after the 1st week. Irritated decided to pull out all melted parts and plant 2nd batch of HC. 3rd day in and 1 part of the hc began during dark to black. I believe its gonna melt also. What is wrong with it??

    I had covered the tank top with transparent plastic and covered the soil with water but leaving the leaves above it. Lights are on 7 hours (breakdown into 3hrs - 4hrs) daily. 4 tubes of T5HO 24watts 12k lightings. 2ft*1.5ft(height)*1ft tanks

    You need air movement over the plants (for CO2). If you aren't letting the tank air out or exchange air a couple times a day you wont get good growth.

    Just a personal piece of advice, if you have a good soil (Aquasoil) and the proper lighting, growing HC submersed is really the easiest way to go. If you begin to have algae problems start dosing Flourish Excel and add some ottos. If you do dose excel for algae control, you cant add shrimp. You can only add shrimp to the tank once you have stopped dosing excel and have made a nice large water change.

    If you have good soil, I would abandon the dry start and try to grow it under water...

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    238
    Feedback Score
    0
    Country
    Singapore

    Re: DSM, Dry start method for starting a new planted tank

    Quote Originally Posted by BJRuttenberg View Post
    You need air movement over the plants (for CO2). If you aren't letting the tank air out or exchange air a couple times a day you wont get good growth.

    Just a personal piece of advice, if you have a good soil (Aquasoil) and the proper lighting, growing HC submersed is really the easiest way to go. If you begin to have algae problems start dosing Flourish Excel and add some ottos. If you do dose excel for algae control, you cant add shrimp. You can only add shrimp to the tank once you have stopped dosing excel and have made a nice large water change.

    If you have good soil, I would abandon the dry start and try to grow it under water...

    hi thanks for advise. Just came back from holiday and i found 2 parts out of 6 parts of my HC melted. 1 of it had white webs around it with white leaves. Rest of 4 parts of HC are fine. Somehow i spotted a rather big earthworms crawling underneath of my tank. Could it be the cause of my melted HC?? Anyway i already flooded my tank halfway and will stop there. See how it goes from here.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    3
    Feedback Score
    0
    Country
    United_States
    Quote Originally Posted by Numbskull View Post
    hi thanks for advise. Just came back from holiday and i found 2 parts out of 6 parts of my HC melted. 1 of it had white webs around it with white leaves. Rest of 4 parts of HC are fine. Somehow i spotted a rather big earthworms crawling underneath of my tank. Could it be the cause of my melted HC?? Anyway i already flooded my tank halfway and will stop there. See how it goes from here.
    White stuff is mold. The earthworm is safe and in fact, good for the soil, tank. I have some in my tank. Good luck.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2
    Feedback Score
    0
    Country
    United States

    Re: DSM, Dry start method for starting a new planted tank

    Quote Originally Posted by Numbskull View Post
    hi thanks for advise. Just came back from holiday and i found 2 parts out of 6 parts of my HC melted. 1 of it had white webs around it with white leaves. Rest of 4 parts of HC are fine. Somehow i spotted a rather big earthworms crawling underneath of my tank. Could it be the cause of my melted HC?? Anyway i already flooded my tank halfway and will stop there. See how it goes from here.
    Hi sorry for digging up the thread, i was having the same problem with the white fungi web while starting with DSM I wonder what could be the cause for the white web problem anyhow i found the link http://www.barrreport.com/showthread...HC-Fungus-Help hope this could be the answer

    During my first week with DSM my tank was top wrapped for the whole period with no additional spray of water and there's no sign of any sort of white web at all. After the first week i unwrapped the cover for air ventilation but also felt that air trapped inside is a bit too warm so i decided that i will open the wrap every morning to let the air out as well as to spray some water to moist the plant. After a few days, i noticed some white webs covering on my HC... Just my 1/2 thoughts that by stop spraying will eventually helps.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    North/Central SG
    Posts
    4,583
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    Images
    38
    Country
    Singapore
    It appear on melting or starting to melt hc. I'm still doing dsm myself, think I will leave them be. Condition are good for them they will appear. I'm on my 2nd? Or 3rd week.

    On a side note, I already introduce the earthworms from the old substrate. They have a good purpose
    Learning the hardway, not the highway.
    Photo Blog - impervious-endeavors.blogspot.com

    Semi-Active currently
    "if he cant be bothered to take the time to write his question properly, why should I take the time to answer him."

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    North/Central SG
    Posts
    4,583
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    Images
    38
    Country
    Singapore
    Edit double post
    Learning the hardway, not the highway.
    Photo Blog - impervious-endeavors.blogspot.com

    Semi-Active currently
    "if he cant be bothered to take the time to write his question properly, why should I take the time to answer him."

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Newton
    Posts
    18
    Feedback Score
    0
    Country
    Singapore

    Re: DSM, Dry start method for starting a new planted tank

    Decided to employ the dry start method in this thread in a new tank i was starting.

    Was using Gex soil and planted the HC in individual clumps throughout the foreground of the tank.

    As stated by Tom, the start out growth is very slow. you don't really see anything happening as the HC will be putting out their root system.
    By the 5th week, i've started to see the HC begin to crawl. Roots also look really good, they average about 3/4 inches into the substrate.

    this is where the problems start kicking in... the dreaded white mold...

    it's very very destructive and spreads like wildfire... the areas it covers will kill off the HC's leaves, sprout small orange-coloured spores and then keep spreading...
    the good thing is, with an established root system, new HC shoots will sprout from that brown mush residual and re-populate that area...

    Previously, i've slowed the spread of the white mold by "flooding" the affected clumps in water covering the mold... but it keeps re-appearing in different locations and ruining the HC in that area...
    it was a vicious cycle of sorts that perpetuated for about 3 months+...

    then I read about Tom's advice about letting the tank "dry out a little" to get rid of the mold and decided to give it a try...
    big big mistake, the mold spread and wiped out half of my established HC foreground that i've painfully cultivated for more than 3 months...

    frustrated, i decided to fill up the tank... leaving it as it is would've destroyed all my HC anyway so i had nothing to lose...

    2 days later, i have all kinds of algae and an entire pond snail colony... oh well, nice change from all that stupid white crap anyway...


    The DSM has it's merits, but we will need to adjust certain parts of the DSM to suit our climate here, where it's more humid and tropical...
    i'm hazarding a guess that where Tom Barr is located, the weather is a lot less humid and more temperate...

    so, to the folks who wish to try using the DSM for HC, my suggestion is to employ it until the roots are established.... then fill up the tank... don't wait for the entire foreground to fill up with HC like i did...

    cheers.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Jurong
    Posts
    257
    Feedback Score
    0
    Images
    2
    Country
    Singapore

    Re: DSM, Dry start method for starting a new planted tank

    Really informative. Describes the bad experience I had with DSM regarding the mould and orange spores, and especially the frustration involved (I restarted 4-5 times due to various problems with these molds, over a period of more than 1 and a half years!!). I have tried flooding, peroxide/ excel nuking, replacing mouldy patches as soon as possible, flooding immediately when they appear etc. methods...

    Just to share my experience: I found that the best way to the problem, is prevention in the 1st place. That is, not to keep humidity and temperature too high by over watering initially, and keeping it wrapped all the while. This is especially so at the start of DSM, as the new HC we planted are prone to dying off due to various reasons like: change in environment, not being rooted yet, rough handling when breaking them into small clumps and washing... Dying leaves and plant-lets will also be present in the clumps we initially planted, unless you wash really so thoroughly, or plant them 1 by 1. From my experience, these dead plant matter in the tank, under high humidity and warm temperature, is what attracts moulds to grow on them. When the mould spreads, it kills nearby HC, creating more dead plants...and the cycle goes on if left unchecked.

    My solution is therefore to remove as much of the dead plant matter from the clumps we planted in the first place. Water the whole tank thoroughly, then suck away all the water you can from the substrate, by inserting a tube into the substrate all the way to the tank bottom and sucking from there. The purpose is so that there will be as little pool of water as possible (preferably, totally drained). The substrate should still be moist (can see from the darker colour, or "stickiness", compared to dry substrate). From then on, try to remove the wrapping of the tank at least once every few days (preferably once a day, or more) to allow exchange of fresh, remove any dead plants, then mist lightly before wrapping it back. If you mist too much, remember to suck out the excess water from the substrate as done before. If mould still grows, remove the patch as soon as possible, then replant with healthy HC if you still have excess.

    The main thing is that the substrate should be moist, but not wet. In fact, there is no need to wrap it up at all if you are able to mist it every morning, and the tank is not exposed to too much moving air (there was once I unwrapped it, fell asleep, my mum switch on the fan for me and it blew into my tank, drying up the HC when I woke up). As long as the top layer of soil is moist, they will be fine and in fact it encourages them to root deeper in search of water.

    Here are a few other scenarios of my failed attempt and my rational to why they failed:

    *Going away for holiday/reservist. Somehow, so parts of the HC died, and mould grew without intervention since I was away. When I came back, majority had melted with mould.

    *Nuking with peroxide/ excel when the mould has spread. The mould dies, but so do some HC, then the mould fights back even harder.

    *As mentioned above, leaving the fan blowing into the tank while I slept, drying them up.

    *Flooding the tank in a desperate attempt when the mould had spread. The mould drowns slowly, but the patches of dead HC remains dead, and all sorts of algae appears in the tank. Since the remaining HC had not rooted well enough, or had just recovered from surviving the mould attack ,they were defenceless against the army of algae. Some got uprooted by the water current, most drowned by algae.

    *My worst heartache was when I once had a full tank of DSM HC, compact and healthy, fully filled up and well rooted. Should have flooded the tank and blasted CO2. My mistake was that I did not. What I did was, I trimmed the bush, flooded it half full to let the trimmed HC float up, scooped them away, then drained the tank again. Proceeded to wrap the tank up, thinking of letting my successful DSM attempt grow them back a week or 2 more before I flood. What grew was the mould. What I think went wrong was that there were inevitably some of the trimmed away HC stuck among the densely rooted ones, and once I drained and wrapped up the tank, I was inviting the mould to grow. So the lesson I learnt was: trim only after flooding!

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Newton
    Posts
    18
    Feedback Score
    0
    Country
    Singapore

    Re: DSM, Dry start method for starting a new planted tank

    1.5 yrs O_o

    I really feel your pain gemo82...


    i think the key is maintaining a constant humidity level within the tank... not too high that it's optimal for mold growth, but not so low that the HC dries out...

    i would go and grab a barometer to conduct tests, but my tank is already full (which reminds me.. i need to go buy erythromycin).. and i don't particularly feel like using DSM again so soon...

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •