Article on Algae by Dennerle

[scoobydoo]

Found this article in the Dennerle web-site about algae, its causes and control. Thought it would be useful to share it here.
Most interesting was the types of tanks with high tendency to become algae infested. Appareantly, it said that tanks with high rate of filtration ie. over filtering has the highest tendency as compared to under filtering. This seems contrary to what we have all come to know ie. over filtering is better.
Another interesting point is that tanks with high O2 content also has a high tendency for algae as algae thrive in an "oxidizing" environment. Thriving algae then produces more O2, more than the fish can use. The excess O2 will then destroy the essential vitamins and make trace elements inactive/unavailable to both fish and plants.

Anyway, for more you can read about it here :
Dennerle Article

[vinz]

After reading Dennerle's philosophy, you should read Dupla's one which contradicts the former one in some ways. Look for the article 'Everything about algae' by Kaspar Horst.

Interesting isn't it? The planted tank is so complex that even the professionals have conflicting answers. []

[Allen_1971]

Quite an interesting read... though most of it is similar to the book from dennerle I bought 2 years back... 2 points of note.

1. They state that the SAE hardly eats any algae... This is half true... mature SAEs hardly eat any algae if commercial foods are available.
2. It mentions that gold-7 contains natural chelates? This may explain how it helps in the fight against algae.

[Allen_1971]

Vinz,

I just skimmed through the dupla site... its pretty much the same as 2 years back... anyway, besides the differences on the recommended flow rates for the filter (dupla says fast... dennerle says not too fast). What are the other diffs? Sorry a bit lazy to do a detailed comparison, just checking to see if you already got them listed out.

[vinz]

Sorry, Allen, I discovered that it's a different article on Dupla. have updated my original post above. It's almost point for point if I remember correctly.

[scoobydoo]

The reason I find it the Dennerle article interesting is because it kinda explains why my 2ft is infested with brush and beard algae. My filtration is 5 times over and the foreground is covered with riccia that is bubbling like crazy ie. excess O2. I stopped adding liquid fert a long time ago thinking it would stop the algae, but I think that has deprived the plants of nutrients.
I've implemented their suggested lighting regime of 4-5hrs on, 4-5hrs off and 4-5hrs on again. Thinking of getting Gold 7 and E15, but a little put off by the price [] Which is better to start with ?

[bclee]

I always take their article (Dennerle & Dupla) with a pinch of salt. I do not believe every they say. Unless they support their view with some lab study or case study, they are just theories to me. It could be just for marketing their products.

I believe there are many of us with extremely high light and O2 content and do not see algae problem.

BC

[eggz]

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On 12/10/2002 5:19:13 PM

Thinking of getting Gold 7 and E15, but a little put off by the price
[] Which is better to start with ?

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Hi scooby,

Just remember that E15 is recommended to work with V30. I made the mistake of buying a lot of E15, only to discover that I should buy V30 as well. But that means my original budget of fert had to double. []

Basically, if you're going to get E15, be prepared to fork out for V30 as well to get the best results.

For me, I didn't get V30, but trying Seachem Flourish instead. I still dose E15 since Flourish is somewhat lacking in Fe


eggz

[bclee]

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On 12/10/2002 5:19:13 PM

The reason I find it the Dennerle article interesting is because it kinda explains why my 2ft is infested with brush and beard algae. My filtration is 5 times over and the foreground is covered with riccia that is bubbling like crazy ie. excess O2. I stopped adding liquid fert a long time ago thinking it would stop the algae, but I think that has deprived the plants of nutrients.
I've implemented their suggested lighting regime of 4-5hrs on, 4-5hrs off and 4-5hrs on again. Thinking of getting Gold 7 and E15, but a little put off by the price [] Which is better to start with ?
----------------

I think your problem is not excess O2. It is more likely to be insufficient nutrients for your plants to match the high lights. The lighting regime is controvesial. Personally I don't think it works and so does many other people.

You can try Seachem, JBL or Sera liquid ferts. They are cheaper in comparison.

If you would like to use Dennerle, try E15 and V30 together. These are their basic fertilisers. I think Gold 7 is like steriods, boosting plant growth. It won't help if you do not have the basic nutrients.

BC

[Allen_1971]

for me, I've just started using E15 again, and my plan is mainly to use it as a substrate booster. My main fert will still be TMG, but will punching in E15s into the substrate once a month to boost substrate.

[vinz]

----------------
On 12/10/2002 5:19:13 PM

The reason I find it the Dennerle article interesting is because it kinda explains why my 2ft is infested with brush and beard algae. My filtration is 5 times over and the foreground is covered with riccia that is bubbling like crazy ie. excess O2. I stopped adding liquid fert a long time ago thinking it would stop the algae, but I think that has deprived the plants of nutrients.
I've implemented their suggested lighting regime of 4-5hrs on, 4-5hrs off and 4-5hrs on again. Thinking of getting Gold 7 and E15, but a little put off by the price [] Which is better to start with ?
----------------

That's why I keep telling ppl to control their filter output current. But my original source of info was not Dennerle but either the APD or rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants (can we call it RAFP from now on, it's so long to type).

You may want to recalculate the cost of V30 and E15 usage on your tank. Just found out the other day that re-dose is calculated based on amount of water changed, not total tank volume.

Depends on your intentions. E15 is iron whereas G7 (claims) to prevent algae, contains plant enzymes, etc... more like a plant health tonic.

[Allen_1971]

Having too fast a flow rate can be a problem, but also remember that your filter will choke up after some time resulting in a slow down in flow rate due to the build up of dirt... So I would still recommend using filters with a flow rate of at least 2 times your tank capacity.

[bclee]

What's the theory about flow rate too high causing algae?

BC

[Allen_1971]

not fully sure, but I've seen it proven through in 2 of my tanks in the past... Just to add on though, I believe a fast flow rate would pose the biggest problems when coupled with low lights, and inadequate CO2.

[DEA]

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On 12/10/2002 5:24:36 PM

I always take their article (Dennerle & Dupla) with a pinch of salt. I do not believe every they say. Unless they support their view with some lab study or case study, they are just theories to me. It could be just for marketing their products.

I believe there are many of us with extremely high light and O2 content and do not see algae problem.

BC
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i go with this
without properly documented experiments with controlled variables it's meaningless to say that high redox = algae
but it doesn't hurt to try it tho
juz absorb whatever works for you and dump the rest

[loupgarou]

algae in 2ft tank powered by 2026

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Theory, the water current is so strong , the ottos and shrimps avoid the strong current areas, so algae builds up there and constantly spread due to the ever increasing spores..

I should put a uv light there (lol, uv for 2ft).

in anycase, the algae isnot bba but brown smear algae.

[bclee]

Here's is the direct rebuttal which Vinz mentioned from Dupla on Dennerle at the end of this page

BC

[hoppinghippo]

I think there may be an ounce of truth in that stagnant areas do seem to dev algae more readily like behind rainbars,etc. however I don't know if it is entirely due to algae eaters not reaching it.

and I think for algaes like BBA, its impt to rid the tank of it. and when it occurs its usu due to contamination from new plants or fishes with spores in the digestive system. I don't think its spores are as common as other algaes otherwise, hence lots of pple's experience when at first no BBA till one fine day they intro-ed some plants (usu hairgrass) then voom..... my personal theory![]

[eggz]

Ok what about this wild theory. When there's high flow rate, currents in the water too strong/fast, the plants have difficulty absorbing nutrients from the water hence there's an excess of unused nutrients which is then used by the algae....

Read somewhere that plants get 70% of their nutrients from the water and 30% from the roots


eggz

[vinz]

Eu-gene,

It's not a wild theory. Too fast a current does make it hard for plants to absorb nutrients as they flow by. Diana Walstad explains it in her book 'Ecology of a Planted Aquarium'. You can find the book in the libraries.

The recommended max flow rate for a planted tank is 3 times the tank volume per hour. No harm going as low as 2 times per hour. However, this is not an indication of the strength of the current. Its an indication of how often the 'entire' water volume flows through the filter.

The Dupla and Dennerle theories have been debated to death on the APD. Search there for more info and what conclusions have been made.

The theory that the algae crew avoid fast flow areas like filter outlets holds too. Even when we seem not to have algae in the tank, it does not mean there's no algae. It means the algae are being consumed faster then they can grow/spread.