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Thread: Plants not doing well

  1. #1
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    Plants not doing well

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    After my 3ft tank was replanted more than a month ago, some of my plants are not growing much and some deteriorated.
    Example: Java ferns and H. salicifolia got holes on old leaves. No substantial growth from B. japonica, they are forever shedding leaves. C. balansae not growing well, any new leaves just turned yellow and wilted.

    I thought it should be nutrient deficiency, but couldn't make out what is deficient. Any idea whats wrong with my plants?

    Tank parameters:
    Volume: 125l ( 3ft )
    Light:144 watt (4x36W)
    Temperature:30C
    CO2:1bps
    pH:6.6
    kH:2
    GH:6
    Fe:0mg/l
    NO3:40mg/l
    Water change: once a week 50%. Use Nutrafin brand Aquaplus water conditioner, 20 ml.
    Eheim filter, wash every two months.
    Fertilization schedule:
    Seachem Flourish 1ml, once a week.
    Seachem Iron 1ml, once a week.
    Seachem Trace 10ml, twice a week.
    Seachem potassium 10ml, twice a week.
    Ca, Mg & CO3 from coral chips.
    Dennerle Gold 7, 3 capsules once a week.
    Jobe aquatic plant fertilizer, occasionally.

    Fishload
    Cardinal:20.
    Barbs:5
    Rams:2
    Yamato:10
    Plec:1
    Discus:6 (introdueced a week ago)

    Fishfood: Frozen bloodworm, brineshrimp, Tetra Bits

  2. #2
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    i'm a newbie in this , but maybe its your temp ? 30 C um abit high rite ? thats just wat i think
    here fishy fish fishy . here shirmpy shirmpy here is my noobie tank(3wk)

  3. #3
    co2 1BPS for 3ft tank seems on the low side? unless you're using reactor kind I guess. and I think 50% water change a bit too much, maybe 25% every week or every 2 weeks? else you keep losing your fert nutrients.

  4. #4
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    I'm using reactor and my CO2 supply is on 24 hrs(solenoid spoiled). Anyway I add in Seachem fertilizer during every water change so this shouldn't be a problem. Sorry to provide the wrong information, the water change volume was increased recently to 50% to accomodate the discus. Previously I only change about 25-30%.

    30C is OK in my opinion. My plants were alright before I replanted the whole tank.

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    What test kit are you using for testing your iron level? If it is indeed 0 as indicated then limiting fert could well be it. What you could do now is to test your iron level again..if it is still zero..then dose more iron to get it to 0.2 ppm as well as dosing K to about 20ppm (Using K2SO4 seems cheaper). After dosing monitor your nitrate level daily to see if it drops..if it doesn't it could be other stuff that is limiting your plant growth or you are overfeeding your fish.
    Plant Physiology by Taiz and Zeiger

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    Your iron dosage looks low to me.

    Following instructions on the bottle, my Flourish Fe dosage for my 175l tank is 4ml every 2 days.

    How big are the holes on the leaves? If they are tiny pin-size holes, it's K deficiency.

    Using base fert? How old is it?
    Vincent - AQ is for everyone, but not for 'u' and 'mi'.
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    Jason: What about PO4 level? It could be low even when NO3 is high. In my discus tank, NO3 is in the 40ppm region but PO4 is at 0.5ppm. Any observations from other plants? How are the faster growing ones faring?
    koah fong
    Juggler's tanks

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    Peter: I'm using Sera test kits for all except pH.
    How do you convert from ppm to ml(dosage)?

    Vincent: The holes are bigger than pin size.
    For H. salicifolia the affected leaves would eventually detached from the stem. The affected leaves from java ferns did not recover and bba starts growing on them.
    I dare not throw too much iron as the tank currently suffering from bba problem.
    My base fert is Ocean Free, granular type, it has been around for 1.5 years now.

    Koah Fong: Just bought Sera PO4 test kit, will test tonight.
    Vallisneria is also not growing well, so far only one side shoot. Previously it grows like crazy.
    Other cryptocoryne like Wendtii, Cordata and Ciliata as usual growing very slowly, a number of leaves melted away, definitely due to high NO3 level.
    A big headache for me, now with the discus, it could get worse. I'm really dread to change water twice a week, been doing that for my bettas already.[]

  9. #9
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    Ok... I think it's the base fert. Ocean Free suppose to last about a year only. When you replanted, did you vacuum the substrate? Possible that during the vacuuming or simply pulling the plants out stirred out a lot of the mulm and that accumulated in your substrate and has been fertilising your plants. Insert some root fertilisers into the substrate near the plants and observe over the next 2 weeks.

    That does not explain Java Fern though... do check your PO4 levels.

    1 ppm = 1mg/l.
    Use the instructions on the Flourish bottles to calculate the dosage.
    Vincent - AQ is for everyone, but not for 'u' and 'mi'.
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    My guess is that you are having deficency in K. I think you can do a few things.

    Firstly, your Fe may not be sufficient but not directly leading to the holes in your leaves. You can either increase the Flourish or Flourish Iron dose to 2ml. Continue increasing until you can get a reading on your test kit.

    Secondly, at the same time, increase your K dosage. 10ml of Flourish K is not sufficient. You can use K2SO4 to boost up the K at water change. Using Flourish K will be too expensive.

    My reasoning:
    - you have having sort of highish NO3 for your fishload... a hint of some limiting nutrients in your tank.
    - Fe is 0... maybe just enough or insufficient... Fe defficiency do not show up very fast.
    - You are just adding about 6ppm of K per week... your plants are having holes in the leaves... likely to be K deficiency

    Note:
    Dennerle Gold 7 will boost your plant growth. But it will go to waste if you do not have the basic nutrients to support the growth.

    The thing that will tell you that the above is working is when you see your NO3 dropping. It means that your plants are starting to grow faster and consuming the NO3 from the water.

    BC

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    Vincent:
    Since you suspect my base fert probably exhausted,if I use Jobe fertilizer, how much and how frequent should I add? I'm worried the bba may get out of control.

    I will test for PO4 tonight.If there is insufficient P, what should I do?

    The Seachem mentioned 1 ml per 40l will raise K level by 1 ppm. How do I calculate from here to reach optimum level ie 20ppm?

    BC:
    If using K2SO4, where can I get this chemical? Whats the concentration going to be like?

    Appreciate your help, guys.

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    Check here for dosing calculation:
    Calculating dosages of fertilizer elements for a planted tank

    If you really want to try PO4, can get FOC from me. I have this KH2PO4 from Dr Mallick. Really under-utilised.
    K2SO4 -- also can get from Dr Mallick.
    koah fong
    Juggler's tanks

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    Hi wks,

    Just my 2 cents:
    1) Temperature:30C - is too high for proper plant growth. Your old set-up works because some of the plants get used to it, the rest does not do well right? Getting the water temp at or below 29 degree is essential, otherwise, one got to juggle with the rest of the parameters.
    2) KH:2 - is too low to keep a stable PH, especially true for small tanks.
    3) GH:6 – you get them too much from coral chips and it has no Mg (if you want, Dolomite has both of them). The Ca might have out levelled the Mg available. I faced this exact same scenario before. Suggestion: for your 125L, put only about 3 pieces of coral chips in the filter, they would last for months. Remove all the rest.
    4) NO3:40mg/l – need not explain, I think.
    5) Water conditional should be avoided unless you know the chemistry. Most of them are designed for fish only tank. Change less water and more frequent, instead.
    6) I guess your water is also cloudy.
    7) Your water fertilization is a bit aggressive. It is fine if there are enough fast growers and the doses are split into daily.
    My shrimps feed on B. Japonica. What about yours?
    9) No Ottos, SAE?
    10) Discuses are big eaters, I think it may overload for your tank, unless you are prepared to restraint them and change the water frequently.


    Have fun.

  14. #14
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    Eh... Jobes isn't going to help much if the base fert is depleted. Read this.

    By the way, IMO, Jobe's and Horti's are only worth the risk for plants that get a big kick out of it, like lotues and echinodoruses.

    PO4 must be detectable, BUT below 1ppm to reduce risk of algae.

    To calculate Flourish K dosage of 20ppm, take you tank water volume, divide it by 40litres then multiply 20ppm. 60ml for your tank... only 4 doses per bottle. [] Once it finishes, go and get K2SO4 from Dr Mallicks. Search AQ for Mallick. You'll find the relevant posts about dosage, etc. Mallick is on the LFS list too. Oh yes, K is dosed at 20 to 30ppm per week.
    Vincent - AQ is for everyone, but not for 'u' and 'mi'.
    Why use punctuation? See what a difference it makes:
    A woman, without her man, is nothing.
    A woman: without her, man is nothing.

  15. #15
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    Thanks for all your advices. I will make the necessary adjustments and let all of you know of the progress.

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    btw,

    if you need to dose PO4, there are 3 ways...

    1. get some KH2PO4 from Juggler
    2. But Flourish Phosphurus... which is basically Potassium Phosphate
    3. Go to Pharmacy (I saw it at Lot 1 CCK) and buy Fleet Enema... its a laxative made with sodium bi-phosphate... Toshi used this in his dosing of phosphates. Make sure you check, cuz there are many variants of fleet enema. Make sure its made of the right stuff.
    Allen

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    Hi Juggler,

    Can I buy some liquid K and Lushgro Aqua (if you have some to spare) from you ? Thks.

    Peter

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    PO4 is 2 mg/l, looks like not necessary to add anymore. Any other way to reduce PO4 level besides water change? I have also increased the dosage of Seachem potassium to meet 20ppm. Hopefully no more holes from the leaves.

    Btw Anyone knows which pharmacy still selling Epsom salt? I have checked Guardian(Sun Plaza) and NTUC Healthcare(AMK) and they said the thing was out of stock for a long time already.

  19. #19
    Try Apex Pharmacy. Seem to carry Epsom salts quite regularly.
    Another quality, non aquatic-related post from mrs budak!

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    Jason: See if the K helps before tring extra Mg etc. Patience...
    koah fong
    Juggler's tanks

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