Plants and Algae

[Allen_1971]

Vinz,

I'll provide the bark you do the chewing ok? and CK can help verify if it works

[inque]

Sorry to butt in but
can some kind Soul out there
kindly Pls. Sum up the pass post
for mi feeble intellect to absorb i've
tried to read the post liao
before i even reach the 2nd pg i Blur *#$%^^&**
got stars in my head




Thanks

[Allen_1971]

inque...

I'm not sure even I know what we're talking about...

OK OK I try... but I'm sure this summary won't do justice to the discussion.

q: "Do healthy plants mean less algae"
A: no... not just healthy plants, but also nutrient balance

This was followed by a discussion which initially assumed that plants outcompeted algae for nutrients... Again this point is not 100% clarified... as there are conflicting views on the web

Later the discussion digressed to whether alleopathy could be the way by which plants suppress algae... Again this is conjecture, but it does seem probable that a healthy plant with enough nutrition could divert enough resources to development of allechemicals.

Other discussions ensued in between (which I can't remember) with the last being on the topic of barley straw. This is a commercial solution provided by dupla which claims to be able to supress algae. Later CK, showed a paper which claimed this suppression should be mainly due to lignin. Lignin when dissolved can form ligno sulphates which could possibly bind free nutrients into a complex form which might make it unavailable to algae (my conjecture). CK also mentioned that oak was a source of lignin. Upon which we began to wonder if this was how Dennerle's blackwater extract (which claims to supress algae and is made from peat and oak bark) works.

Final few point were also with relation to the locally available ketapang leaves and whether they would be any help against algae... that discussion I think is still open... and will probably stay that way until vinz starts chewing some ketapang bark

Anyway, like I said, the summary is short and can't possibly do justive to the 50+ post not to mention 3 poems in between... read through again, and ask if you don't understand.

[CK Yeo]

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On 12/21/2002 1:04:51 AM
dupla which claims to be able to supress algae. Later CK, showed a paper which claimed this suppression should be mainly due to lignin. Lignin when dissolved can form ligno sulphates which could possibly bind free nutrients into a complex form which might make it unavailable to algae (my conjecture).
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No references to ligno sulphates in the paper (you really add salt and add vinegar). Again, Lignin is insoluble! They are claiming a cocktail of phenolic phytotoxins possibily derived from lignin AFTER baterial decomposition. NOT LIGNIN itself. In anycase, if nutrient is unavailable to algae, it is unavailable to plants also.

Anyone wants to read the paper is welcome to "borrow" it from me (copyright protection thingy, what you do after you borrow is your problem.)

ck

[inque]

Allen_1971
Thanks for the summary
Good Plants Growth = Bad Algae right

[Allen_1971]

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On 12/21/2002 10:02:37 AM


No references to ligno sulphates in the paper (you really add salt and add vinegar). Again, Lignin is insoluble! They are claiming a cocktail of phenolic phytotoxins possibily derived from lignin AFTER baterial decomposition. NOT LIGNIN itself. In anycase, if nutrient is unavailable to algae, it is unavailable to plants also.

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CK,

oops sorry, was trying to summarize the various posts... didn't mean to say that you talked about lignosulphates... that was me later in the post... guess that line came out wrong.

As for lignin being insoluble, according to what I read there are 2 forms of lignin? OK let me cut and paste...

"Because lignins are very complex natural polymers with many random couplings, the exact chemical structure is not known. Physical and chemical properties differ depending on the extraction technology. For example, lignosulfonates are hydrophilic (will dissolve in water) and kraft lignins are hydrophobic (will not dissolve in water). The usefulness of commercial lignosulfonates products comes from their dispersing, binding, complexing and emulsifying properties."

Inque,

I think your summary is easier to understand than mine

[DEA]

Anyway, H202 is so reactive... I doubt it can last long enough in a enviroment full of organics to do enough damage to algae cells. so, what concentrations are produced? If H2O2 really is the key component, you might be better off dripping pure H2O2 into your tank.

let's rephrase all these into simple english

h2o2 is very bad for everything in the tank
just that your plants can take it better than the algae (uhmm... when it succeeds)
most of the time your fish and shrimp will be adversely affected
if getting rid of algae is the end-all and be-all, sure, h2o2 works

ok, now onto the bioscience part
the theory is decomposing material produces substances that inhibit algal growth
exact mechanism unknown
i'd say it works like blackwater extract (blackwater being derived from... exactly the same thing) which is reputed to retard algal growth

next, the oxygen thing
whether oxygen saturation helps to destroy algae, we'll have to wait for someone to do 2 setups with no plants, full of nutrients, and 1 with oxygen, the other without
but regardless
if the tank is bubbling, it can only mean the plants are healthy
if plants are healthy, algae will definitely lose out in the long run

makes sense?

[hoppinghippo]

anyone tried h2o2 on plants with bba? what's the best way of doing it so that damage to the plant is minimized yet damage to BBA is maximized?

[Allen_1971]

Hey guys,

I was reading through the latest posting from APD, and came across this link which someone provided to a study on barley straw and its effects...

Barley Straw Study

Thought it may be interesting for some of you to read.

[Nicky]

You know what? I am always amazed by the diversity of people here.. by that I mean people from all walks of lives coming here to share experiences.

Now come to this posting..

Can anyone of us can get access to Barley Straw in bulk for sale in Singapore?

[vinz]

AquaTechnic. Get the address at website.