Another (CMI) bug shoot

[luenny]

Up the aperture and down the shutter put on tripod. This is for insect that doesn't move so much. Once I shot at 7pm (almost dark) and my shutter was 2 sec. Still turn out sharp with green background.

[rwalker]

I know can up the aperture value la (for sharpness, DOF), but will be at the expense of a darker background and you loose light isn't it? Then will have to fill with flash. What I don't get is, how do you light your subject and background evenly? Say background and subject some brightness, you dial down/up aperture or shutter, both gets affected equally. You flash the subject, it becomes brighter than the background. No?
ck

If you want the Bg to be bright enough, then shoot in Av mode. The camera will meter the ambient lights to decide on the shuttle speed and fire the fill-in flash to light up the subject, just enough though. But then you run the danger of handshake if the shutter speed is too low in a deem light condition. Thus, some put the camera on tripod.

Here is a technical doc on flash:
http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/#faq10

CK, don't worry too much. Enough theory, just shoot it!

[hwchoy]

if you shoot in Av mode the flash will be set to x-sync right? then your background will be totally black. unless you set a custom function not to fix to x-sync, if I recall correctly.

[CK Yeo]

CK, don't worry too much. Enough theory, just shoot it!

Ya. Think too much!
I thought some problems already solved, so easier/faster to ask. No point keep going back and make the same mistakes isn't it?

if you shoot in Av mode the flash will be set to x-sync right? then your background will be totally black. unless you set a custom function not to fix to x-sync, if I recall correctly.

Does it? Too cheem. For flash photography, I only use M mode.

ck

[rwalker]

if you shoot in Av mode the flash will be set to x-sync right? then your background will be totally black. unless you set a custom function not to fix to x-sync, if I recall correctly.

I don't think this is the case.
The maximum x-sync speed is the fastest shutter speed that the camera can sync with flash. You would have a overexposure it the x-sync is exceeded rather than totally black.

I think in Canon camera, you can set the minimum shuttle speed for fill flash but not the other way round.

[hwchoy]

not sure how it works for Nikon. in my EOS 20D, when CFn is set to fixed (x-sync at 1/250s) the shutter is fixed at 1/250s in Av mode. when CFn is set to auto then it will change according to exposure evaluation.

[ranmasatome]

I know can up the aperture value la (for sharpness, DOF), but will be at the expense of a darker background and you loose light isn't it? Then will have to fill with flash. What I don't get is, how do you light your subject and background evenly? Say background and subject some brightness, you dial down/up aperture or shutter, both gets affected equally. You flash the subject, it becomes brighter than the background. No?

Read a brief mention of 2nd curtain sync. How does that work for insect macro? (after taking everything else that you guys mentioned into consideration, of course).

ck

increase iso loh...

[trident]

I have tried using the CFn in my 20D, (x-sync at 1/250s). Don't work for me as when the flash is mounted the shuttle speed will automatically set to 1/250. Macro shots in this mode all came out with dark background.
I am still having difficulties getting my subject all sharp, background creamy smooth and bright. Now using small aperture and slow speed, but will face problem in windy condition.
The work around is stacking or just PP the background !

[Simon]

Richard, how is stacking going to improve the background?

CK
don't worry so much about getting a creamy background, try getting the subject in focus and nicely exposed, especially those in the shade.

[hwchoy]

I have tried using the CFn in my 20D, (x-sync at 1/250s). Don't work for me as when the flash is mounted the shuttle speed will automatically set to 1/250. Macro shots in this mode all came out with dark background.

set your CFn 03 to Auto.

[luenny]

I don't have any problems with shutter speed going to x-sync when shooting Av with flash.

Richard, small aperture and slow speed is the way to go. Wind can be a problem but the only workaround for wind is to use a lot of flash so you flash both fore and back ground. But that means you probably need 3 - 4 flashes at once. Stacking does not work when it's windy too.

Stacking can improve background because instead of shooting your subject at f22 (for example) to get the whole subject sharp, you shoot a few pictures at f8 to get only part of it sharp. At f22, you'll probably get the background sharp too but at f8 the DOF is thin so the background remains blur.

[CK Yeo]

not sure how it works for Nikon. in my EOS 20D, when CFn is set to fixed (x-sync at 1/250s) the shutter is fixed at 1/250s in Av mode. when CFn is set to auto then it will change according to exposure evaluation.

Don't understand. Use Av so the the shutter speed is auto. If you want to fix the shutter speed and aperture, might as well just use M mode. Why set it to auto then try to override it?

increase iso loh...

Noise! I am a bit too used to low ISO and using flash to compensate for the resulting insufficient light especially on overcast days.

I have tried using the CFn in my 20D, (x-sync at 1/250s). Don't work for me as when the flash is mounted the shuttle speed will automatically set to 1/250. Macro shots in this mode all came out with dark background.
I am still having difficulties getting my subject all sharp, background creamy smooth and bright. Now using small aperture and slow speed, but will face problem in windy condition.
The work around is stacking or just PP the background !

Yes. Dark background and wind is a problem. If the solution is just photoshop, then it will be so much easier.

ck

[CK Yeo]

CK
don't worry so much about getting a creamy background, try getting the subject in focus and nicely exposed, especially those in the shade.

Hahhaaa... It is a full package isn't it? If my intention is just to get everything sharp, I will just use high shutter, high aperture etc and get head sharp, tail sharp and end up looking sterile? Then P&S is good enough....

ck

[Simon]

"try getting subject in focus and nicely exposed"

[budak]

re the background, i find adjust the flash zoom distance (Canon 580EX) to approximate the focal length of the lens helps to obtain adequate illumination of the background.

[hwchoy]

Don't understand. Use Av so the the shutter speed is auto. If you want to fix the shutter speed and aperture, might as well just use M mode. Why set it to auto then try to override it?

ck

if you use Av with shutter speed at x-sync then the background is typically quite dark. can try what budak suggest also.

however if you want flash at slow shutter then one is M mode (what I described originally) or you can use Av mode with metered shutter speed. the flash operates as fill when in Av mode whereas in M mode it will be the direct light. I think in practice direct light can be more harsh but I haven't really done a lot of work in this area.

in M mode you have to set your own exposure and may require a few shots to get it right, whereas in Av mode the exposure will be metered for you.

[rwalker]

if you use Av with shutter speed at x-sync then the background is typically quite dark. can try what budak suggest also.

however if you want flash at slow shutter then one is M mode (what I described originally) or you can use Av mode with metered shutter speed. the flash operates as fill when in Av mode whereas in M mode it will be the direct light. I think in practice direct light can be more harsh but I haven't really done a lot of work in this area.

in M mode you have to set your own exposure and may require a few shots to get it right, whereas in Av mode the exposure will be metered for you.

My bad...
Don't know your "x-sync" is referring to a special (or redundant?) feature
in higher end Canon DSLR camera where my lowly 350 can only perform the opposite, which is to set the minimum allow shuttle speed, lol.

Anyway, as you rightly pointed out, in AV mode, once you disable the "x-sync" then it will meter the ambient lights and set the right shutter speed.

I hope all the comments actually help CK rather than make him more confuse. I guess there is only one way to clear doubts, shoot in different mode and experiment it yourself.

Have fun.

[hwchoy]

My bad...
Don't know your "x-sync" is referring to a special (or redundant?) feature
in higher end Canon DSLR camera where my lowly 350 can only perform the opposite, which is to set the minimum allow shuttle speed, lol.

I am quite sure the x-sync feature works the same way across all EOS models. anyone else with a 350D can verify? I believe the 350D has 1/200s for x-sync.

[CK Yeo]

in M mode you have to set your own exposure and may require a few shots to get it right, whereas in Av mode the exposure will be metered for you.

ETTL works with M mode (on camera body, not flash) too. Metering still depends on whether you set as spot or evaluative or centre weighted average, etc not what mode you use. Body and Flash will will communicate based on pre-flash, shutter, aperture and fill whatever is not enough. It just sounds like a really tedious way to change the shutter speed, when all you need to do is set to M mode.

300D no custom function. Cannot override shutter speed in Av mode.

I am not (that) confused (yet). It's rather interesting to know how others tackle the situation shooting insects. And more interesting that this is happening on a fish forum! But then again not many people shooting fish here isn't it?

ck

[hwchoy]

I hope all the comments actually help CK rather than make him more confuse.

we are trying to help him?