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Thread: Christmas Moss

  1. #1
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    Christmas Moss

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    Dear all,
    Mr. Loh was very kind to send me some Christmas Moss and it arrived last Monday (thanks again Mr. Loh!). On his suggestion, I decided to post a problem I'm experiencing here. Tied to a couple of my 50 gallon tank's driftwoods with regular sewing black thread, they were separated and not tied on top of each other. Lighting is OK, I have two 20 watt Sunglo fluorescents that the rest of the tank seems to be receiving the most, plus a couple of regular shoplights (36W each) at the back of the tank. I've also hooked up a video cooling fan at the back running on the same schedule as the lights (12 hours). The temperature fluctuates, I admit, but that's only because it's indoors and I turn on the air-con every night. Out of this habit, the temperature always registers between 24 degrees centigrade (the lowest) and 28 degrees centigrade (highest but rare).

    I also have DIY CO2 injection and I add Sera Florena liquid fertilizer 40ml every week with water change.

    Now, the problem: some of the fronds seem to be turning light brown on one end. I don't know what's wrong. pH is 7.5 and I don't know about other parameters as I have no test kits for them.

    Perhaps someone can provide some insight? Thanks a lot!


    Regards,
    Annette Chung

  2. #2
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    welcome Virce,

    I also have faced this kinda problem b4 but I dunno to me it's natural as moss need time to adapt to the new environment. Mine turn brown initially but it turns green and new green one grow.
    How long has the moss been in your tank.

    to me yr pH is a bit to high... try to bring it down to 6.5-6.7 range...

    I guess you are using canister filter? what filter medium are u using?

    my 2cents worths..
    If I have a dollar & you have a dollar & we swap, neither is better off. BUT if I have an idea & you have an idea & we swap we are both richer

  3. #3
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    Thanks Rashid, for the reply. No, I'm not using canister filter right now but I'm bidding on one and it's going to come soon. I believe the filter media that comes with it are foam, bio-max and carbon.

    The moss is only in my tank for a week, but now that I know there's someone who also has the same problem then I'll wait it out. Perhaps then it'll recover.
    Regards,
    Annette Chung

  4. #4
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    I am not into moss but your PH seems too high that indicate insufficient CO2, unless your KH is 15. First check your water KH. If your KH is 3, then lower the PH with CO2 until you get 6.6.



    Regards,

    Freddy Chng

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by virce
    I believe the filter media that comes with it are foam, bio-max and carbon.
    Forget about the carbon in the canister. It will only absorb whatever nutrients you put inside the water. I'm not sure what's a bio-max, but if it is the same as sintered glass kind of filter media or bio-rings, it should be ok. Get some wool also as one of the filter media.
    Zulkifli

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    LFSs don't sell kH test kits. What makes water more alkaline? My tap water is 7.
    Regards,
    Annette Chung

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    If you do not mind taking a small risk... Forget about the Kh, just increase the CO2 injection rate to lower the Ph till you get 6.6, gradually over a few days. You should see more bubbles on your stem plants as you increase the CO2.



    Regards,

    Freddy Chng

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    I finally found a kH test kit at a local LFS! Tucked away in a corner.

    It's shocking. My kH is extremely low. In the 50 gallon tank the kH is about 3dkh and another 20 gallon of mine is 1dkh. I've just bought kH-plus to increase it.

    I've just done a 20% water change and I've seen the pH dropped to 7.5. So now I'm going to add pH-minus. Looking at this all, fish-keeping should not be so complicated!
    Regards,
    Annette Chung

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by virce
    Looking at this all, fish-keeping should not be so complicated!
    Hmm, but think how happy you will be when the moss starts to take off

    Annette, I don't know if it's a good idea to mess with your Kh and Ph too much. I think you may have forgotten that Freddy said these parameters should be changed gradually. Neither fish nor plants take well to sudden changes in water parameters. I hope, in your haste to grow the moss, you don't end up killing all the fish in your tank instead.

    Loh K L

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    You're right, Mr. Loh. I know I shouldn't play around with these things as they cause osmotic stress to the fishes.

    I know I made a huge mistake. Last night I added twice the normal dosage for tablet plant fertilizers as I did not see the labelling at the side of the box. Today I found the surface full of bubbles. When pH is checked, it's 8.0 (yeah it increased). I did a 20% change and it dropped to 7.5 but went back up to 8.0 in a matter of hours.

    I feel so miserable... the tablets cannot be retrieved because when I did, I found them turning mushy.

    I guess the problem now isn't the browning christmas moss, it's the extreme pH reading in my tank!

    Plan is I'm going to change 20% water of water every day. At least it'll keep things under control until the excess tablets are removed.
    Regards,
    Annette Chung

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by virce
    It's shocking. My kH is extremely low. In the 50 gallon tank the kH is about 3dkh and another 20 gallon of mine is 1dkh. I've just bought kH-plus to increase it.
    kH of 3 should be ok. What is the kH-plus that you bought? To increase kH you can also use sodium bicarbonate or baking soda. 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda to 50 litres of water raises the kH by 1 dKH.

    Quote Originally Posted by virce
    I've just done a 20% water change and I've seen the pH dropped to 7.5. So now I'm going to add pH-minus.
    Don't use any chemicals to reduce the pH. As what Freddy has said, you should only use CO2 to bring down the pH. I think the problem could lie with your DIY CO2. Is it working properly?

    Quote Originally Posted by virce
    Last night I added twice the normal dosage for tablet plant fertilizers
    What is the tablet plant fertilizers that you bought? Is it something you put inside the water or to be buried inside the gravel?
    Zulkifli

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    Annette,

    You need not bother on the KH as long it is not zero. KH of between 1 & 3 is good. Try not to use chemical if possible.

    If you have KH of 1, inject the CO2 till you get PH of 6.0, measure just before light on (the lowest PH you will get at this point of time) if you inject CO2 24 hrs a day. The PH will slowly increase when Light on as the plants take up the CO2 during light on.
    If you have KH of 3, inject the CO2 till you get PH of 6.4, measure just before light on (the lowest PH you will get at this point of time) if you inject CO2 24 hrs a day. The PH will slowly increase when Light on as the plants take up the CO2 during light on.

    However, lower the PH slowly (increase the CO2 injection slowly) over a few days so that the fishes and plants could adjust to it and more importantly (if you inject 24 a day), to avoid over injection that lead to toxification.

    If you have solenoid control for CO2 in future, let me know, I will provide another set of check/control procedure.



    Regards,
    Freddy Chng.

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    What is the kH-plus that you bought?
    It's a Sera product, and I shouldn't have bought it because baking soda is a great alternative. Will buy that in the future.

    I think the problem could lie with your DIY CO2. Is it working properly?
    It couldn't be more frisky. However, there's only a 1.5 litre bottle for a 50 gallon tank, it may not be enough though. I can't add another reactor because Mr. Loh was the one kind enough to send me it because no LFS sells them.

    What is the tablet plant fertilizers that you bought? Is it something you put inside the water or to be buried inside the gravel?
    Something I put inside the gravel. That's why I mentioned that it'd turned into mush when I tried to retrieve them.

    KH of between 1 & 3 is good
    For community tanks I thought the recommended level of kH should be 5dkh to 10dkh?

    If you have KH of 3, inject the CO2 till you get PH of 6.4
    How do I do that? I'm using DIY CO2 with only one bottle. Should I add another bottle?

    Thanks!
    Regards,
    Annette Chung

  14. #14
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    For your fertilizers, you should not have retrieved them as when they turned mushy, they are leaching a lot of nutrients into the water column. I suggest that you do more regular water changes to prevent the explosion of algae.

    For DIY CO2, Here's a thread with pictures showing how you can hook up a few bottles together if one bottle is not enough. The output from the bottle is joined together using a Y or T connector and connected to a bubble counter before going to the reactor.
    Zulkifli

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    I only pulled one out, as soon as I discovered it became mushy, I stopped digging.

    Thanks for the link. I'm going to keep up with the water changes to clear this thing up.
    Regards,
    Annette Chung

  16. #16
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    Dear Annette,

    "For community tanks I thought the recommended level of kH should be 5dkh to 10dkh?"
    All living things (fishes and plants) are very adaptable to surrounding changes as long as you give enough them time. Throughout the years, I have various fishes and plants living together with water ranges from KH of 1 to 6, PH 6 to 7. Gradual change is the key.
    For planted tank, PH of 6.4 seems to be idea, I therefore, keep the KH at about 2.

    "I'm using DIY CO2 with only one bottle. Should I add another bottle?"
    You can and should do that. In the beginning, add a valve to control. It is always good to have at least 2 bottles and start the brew with about 5 days gap between the 2 bottles, so that, the CO2 supply is more consistance.
    If you are using the spiral diffuser, place it as deep in the water as possible to allow water pressure and CO2 travel distant to help dissolve the gas. You may use reactor for better efficiency.



    Regards,

    Freddy Chng

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    Thanks Freddy, another CO2 bottle has been added. For a female, using the drill myself is really satisfying!

    Well I've done 50% water change, nothing else added (not even kH up and pH down) and I'll continue to monitor the pH level.

    Also, have I also mentioned that in conjuction with the extreme pH crisis, there are LOTS of bubbles at the surface? Check this picture out:




    Regards,
    Annette
    Regards,
    Annette Chung

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    That's strange. Where are the bubbles coming from? I can think of several possiblities but they all seem unlikely.

    1. There's an air pocket in your powerhead filter.
    2. There's a brand new piece of driftwood or rock in the tank.
    3. It's pearling from the plants.

    But you should know where the bubbles are coming from, Annette. Let me know.

    Loh K L

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    Mr. Loh,
    That's the strangest thing. My water seem to be able to "bond" the bubbles to the extend they can't "pop" for a long time. My powerhead filter is not blowing bubbles (I disconnected the tubing that enables air to be blown into the water - sorry I forgot what it's called ) It's only blowing at bubbles bubbling from a bubble wand below. Even so, I don't see why the bubbles should not pop for a long time. Before the pH increase, there's no such problem, in fact I got the normal "cola effect".

    Same thing with CO2. As you know, Mr. Loh the spiral tube ends with bubbles finally released into the water and floating to the top. Now, it doesn't pop, just like the rest!

    As for driftwood or rock... nope. The things I have in my tank has been there since the beginning. I doubt it's from the plants either as I don't see any bubbles on the plants themselves.

    Can it be related to the increase in pH?
    Regards,
    Annette Chung

  20. #20
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    Well I know the description sounds strange, so you have to see it yourself. There's a link below for you to download a video I took of the bubbles. It's only about 2.2MB.

    Sorry it's small and when enlarged it's hazy but that's the best I can do with my digital camera.

    http://www.type-v.net/AquariumBubbles.zip
    Regards,
    Annette Chung

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